Square really shot itself in the foot this time.

[Arnys]

(This is posted on behalf of a friend who can't register on the forums because it won't let her select a character. FIX THIS.)

What in the seven hells was Square thinking with this? There are plenty of other threads talking about how ridiculous their stupid excuses were (because they were) and how sexist this is (because it is; check out Sulnas for the proper explanation: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...=1#post4914407 ).

But I want to talk about how tone deaf and idiotic of a PR move this is.

Square knows what people think about genderlocking. They actually got such a backlash for genderlocking that male Miqo'te were made playable! (I believe the same went for female Roes; I'm not up to date on that one, just the Miqo'te) They. KNOW. The playerbase doesn't want genderlocking. And yet they went ahead with two genderlocked races?

But what's worse than that. What's more idiotic, more mind-boggling, is that they did the Number 1 No No No Do Not Do thing in business: they hyped up bad press.

Square knew people wanted male Viera. People asked them CONSTANTLY since the Viera was announced about it. What about male Viera? Will there be male Viera? And their answer was to wait for the fanfest to find out. Which is obviously an implication that they WILL be there, because you don't hype an event this way (with smiles and winks) to tell people what they're asking for is NOT included. That is just asking. ASKING. TO get hugely backlashed on.

And lookie what's happening.

I preordered Shadowbringers because I trusted Square. They made boneheaded moves, but considering XIV was entirely reworked AND they had already removed genderlocked races in this game? I had thought they would at least have the braincells to realize adding in what they REMOVED would be a stupid, idiotic, bad press, back-lash filled move.

And yet, here we are.

[Arnys]

Honestly? I almost wish I could take my preorder back. (The earring is too good) I can't do that, but 99% of my excitement for Shadowbringers is now gone. Just poof! Right in the ether! I had a character who is meant to be a slim, cute man, and Viera would be perfect for him. Even if the male Viera ended up more masculine and bulky than the concept art showed? That would've been fine! It would've been enough. I was so excited for the fantasia, for glamours; I had actually picked out Mog Station stuff for him to go with his new race and I was ready and eager to start grinding his weaver to make him cosmetic stuff.

Now? Now I can't even look at the character. I just feel anger every time I think of how Square did such a stupid, ridiculous, incomprehensible move.

Oh, and all that money I was gonna spend on him? Yeah, they won't be getting a cent of it now.

So bravo, Square. Not only have you lost all my money (and no doubt the money of tons of others, either from subs, or Mog Station items, or Fantasias), I'm not even hyped for Shadowbringers anymore. Viera wasn't the only thing I liked about it, not by a long shot, but seeing you be so TONE DEAF AND IGNORANT has made me deeply frightened for the structure of Shadowbringers. And now I wonder what other things you went ahead with, disregarding what we've shown to want or ask.

You've earned every little bit of outrage and bad press you're getting, and I hope you get even more. I don't care that the Ronso (or whatever fancy name you made for them) was added. I would've been in massive support of them. I care that you're genderlocking again, and genderlocking in the same sexist, male-gaze-and-male-power way that you removed before because people backlashed against it.

You're better than Blizzard. You've shown in the past you listen and learn.

Show it to us again.

[briarth0rn]

I feel like this is what several years of built up good will getting burned to the ground looks like. SE foreseeing this kind of reaction and not caring, or SE not seeing this reaction at all are both possibilities that don't inspire a lot of confidence in whoever's making big decisions like this. MMOs as a genre are in a horrible spot right now because of garbage like genderlocking that's become the norm in terrible F2P korean or chinese games, how could anybody think that emulating that would be a good idea? I don't accept lore as an excuse because SE can make the lore say whatever they want, and they often do, just looking at things like crossover events or the Yorha raid, and I don't accept lack of resources as an excuse, because you can't tell me two genderlocked races wasn't just as much work or more than a single, complete race.

Bad, uninspired decisions were made, and I'm going to be a lot more skeptical and critical of the game's direction going forward for it.

[Arnys]

(Again posted on friend's behalf)

You're pretty much right. I want to hold out hope and imagine it was just tone-deaf and ignorant, but with all the sexist crap already going around -- you heard about them whining that ~I don't waaaaannnaaa make skimpy male clothes, it's uncomfortaaaaaaaable~, right? -- all I can really see is just... not caring what we think. Which HURTS considering a lot of the good changes in the game came about BECAUSE they cared about us.

That was the whole reason I stuck with FFXIV. WoW was originally my home MMO, but Blizzard decided "screw the players" and so I left. ESO didn't grab me, and I hate F2P stuff for this very decision. And then... Square does this?

As much as I'm angry about the lack of male Viera and female Ronso, what makes me far more angry is the deep worry I have over the future of this MMO if they continue like this.

And you're right; lore is not an excuse. The best way I've found it explained is in this thread, in fact: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...=1#post4915589

If you're doing all that? You can shove your "BUT LOOOOOOOOOORE" explanations where the sun don't shine.

[Racen]

(Again posted on friend's behalf)

You're pretty much right. I want to hold out hope and imagine it was just tone-deaf and ignorant, but with all the sexist crap already going around -- you heard about them whining that ~I don't waaaaannnaaa make skimpy male clothes, it's uncomfortaaaaaaaable~, right? -- all I can really see is just... not caring what we think. Which HURTS considering a lot of the good changes in the game came about BECAUSE they cared about us.

That was the whole reason I stuck with FFXIV. WoW was originally my home MMO, but Blizzard decided "screw the players" and so I left. ESO didn't grab me, and I hate F2P stuff for this very decision. And then... Square does this?

As much as I'm angry about the lack of male Viera and female Ronso, what makes me far more angry is the deep worry I have over the future of this MMO if they continue like this.

And you're right; lore is not an excuse. The best way I've found it explained is in this thread, in fact: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...=1#post4915589

If you're doing all that? You can shove your "BUT LOOOOOOOOOORE" explanations where the sun don't shine.

yeah except that response you linked is a hilarious overreaction and some of the worst virtue signaling I've ever seen, this coming from someone who is about as far left as you can be. It's a videogame. You want to play a buff female character, Roe female is there for you, you want to play a slim, attractive, silky male.. Miqo'te male is there for you. Square nowhere promised you a race would have both genders and not having a male bunny is not sexism.

[Barristan]

Did we really need another thread about this?

And honestly, OP..what promises were broken? Players asked for Viera. They got Viera. Just not the Viera that the entitled and overhyped section of the player base wanted.

[Arnys]

Did we really need another thread about this?

And honestly, OP..what promises were broken? Players asked for Viera. They got Viera. Just not the Viera that the entitled and overhyped section of the player base wanted.

1) Yes. We did. We need LOTS of threads about this, because it's the only way people are going to listen. If we contain it to one thread, it's just going to be ignored. If you want change? You have to FLOOD companies with it.

2) This is a different topic than the races themselves; it's talking about their PR.

3) When Square removed genderlocking of Miqo'te and Roes, they promised they would never do it again. That is the promise I mean, that is the promise they broke."

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

1) Yes. We did. We need LOTS of threads about this, because it's the only way people are going to listen. If we contain it to one thread, it's just going to be ignored. If you want change? You have to FLOOD companies with it.

2) This is a different topic than the races themselves; it's talking about their PR.

3) When Square removed genderlocking of Miqo'te and Roes, they promised they would never do it again. That is the promise I mean, that is the promise they broke."

Whats a better front, 300 tiny threads that disappear overnight, or 1 giant one?

Also, its easy to select a char, you have to click the star in the upper corner of the character portrait.

[BrokenButterfly]

Whats a better front, 300 tiny threads that disappear overnight, or 1 giant one?

Also, its easy to select a char, you have to click the star in the upper corner of the character portrait.

1) Both. Companies like this just mute the single thread and never look at it. I've seen it before. Sorry if you don't like it, but this is the way you get people to pay attention -- with both huge threads and smaller threads.

2) Once again, I'm talking about their PR moves and my concern FOR THE GAME AS A WHOLE with the evidence they've shown us here, not the races itself. The current threads up don't match that topic.