A letter to the Devs, Producers, and whoever else has a say

[Brutalistica]

/signed
putting my support for your thread.
Female Hrothgar ftw!

[Razard]

Hey.... remember the Duskwight Elezen? Their lore is they don't leave the underground chambers of Gelmorra.... and they absolutely despise civilization and cities. So having them seen above ground in a city state is also a massive lore break, but.... here we are. All of their lore excuses have counterpart reasons why the reason is invalid in the game already.

However, for many of the Elezen, Gelmorra had become their home, and the ancestors of the Duskwight refused to leave the city they'd created and felt betrayed by the Hyur and their fellow Elezen. Prideful in their city and civilization, those who remained attempted to continue operating Gelmorra. The task proved impossible, as three-quarters of their population had left nearly overnight; the systems put in place to make Gelmorra inhabitable began to break down, and could not be repaired for they lacked those with the skill to do so. Their Mun-Tuy farms lacked the requisite numbers to tend to them, and so their food supply ran low.

Over generations, they struggled and suffered in a vain attempt to maintain their beloved home. These years spent in dank, shadowy caverns caused their skin to take on darker hues over time. Ultimately, though they wished to remain, the Duskwight were forced to leave Gelmorra. Some among them still blame the plight of their lost civilization on their Wildwood cousins and the Hyur of Gridania, with particular spite directed towards the Wildwood. Many Wildwood, failing to understand this animosity, later came to see the Duskwight as undesirable due to their stereotypical connection with brigandry in the Twelveswood.

Today, many Duskwight dwell within the sylvan city-state with some facing undue discrimination as a result of the terse relationship between their clan and other forestborn. Still, the reputation for brigandry persists, as the Redbelly Wasps, a group of Duskwight bandits, stalk the South Shroud from the ruins of Boughbury—now called Redbelly Hive.

Oh would you look at that. Lore reasons.

[wereotter]

Oh would you look at that. Lore reasons.

As the Duskwight Elezen generally shun civilization, they make up a very small percentage of any of the realm's city-states, if any at all. They are most populous in Gridania, where they make up approximately ten percent of its population.

The majority of those who do live above ground, also, live in Gridania making up less than 10% of the population there. So.... even lower percentage of people living in the most populous region of their habitation are Duskwights than the percentage of Viera born male.... yet no males, because lore?

[LunaP]

The majority of those who do live above ground, also, live in Gridania making up less than 10% of the population there. So.... even lower percentage of people living in the most populous region of their habitation are Duskwights than the percentage of Viera born male.... yet no males, because lore?

Why are we arguing some vs none, in vierra sense they specifically said ALL remain in hiding vs a small percentage come out for Elezen..

I'm trying to understand why its sexist to write out lore in such a fashion, as if creativity to a point is just not allowed in this day and age and everything MUST conform to everyone? I honestly hope at this point Yoshi doesn't bend to this or SE for that matter, vs just giving 1 female race they gave a male race as well just so it wasn't 1 sided since they couldn't write around the already in place lore of male vierra to begin with.

[wereotter]

Why are we arguing some vs none, in vierra sense they specifically said ALL remain in hiding vs a small percentage come out for Elezen..

I'm trying to understand why its sexist to write out lore in such a fashion, as if creativity to a point is just not allowed in this day and age and everything MUST conform to everyone? I honestly hope at this point Yoshi doesn't bend to this or SE for that matter, vs just giving 1 female race they gave a male race as well just so it wasn't 1 sided since they couldn't write around the already in place lore of male vierra to begin with.

I never claimed sexism.... so I'm not sure if that comment is aimed at me, or the general rhetoric of the forums regarding this announcement.

However.... Ronso as a male only race is a slap in the face to the concept of adding the female only Viera. Viera may have only been seen in games so far as female (despite us knowing males exist) but female Ronso have existed in large numbers since the very beginning. I think half the Ronso Fangs were female.... I'd have to double check the exact number, but at least 2-3 of them are female for sure.

The real problem with the Hrothgar/Ronso is that if they wanted to create a female only Viera there is no male counterpart that exists in any game, and definitely not one with as much hype behind it as the Viera, with MAYBE the exception of making the Lupin playable. Considering the Ronso can't wear headgear anyway, making that race playable works just fine. Additionally saying they added one female and one male makes it even ignores the value of one established race over the value of something made sex specific so they could make this work.

But I would say this in the end. Lore should ultimately serve to expand player experience, not limit it. And lore, in terms of scarcity of race or sex, should inform how many of that type of character model is used for NPCs, not for players. Duskwights are so rare I can only NPC I can think of in the game is in the early lancer quests, and that's right. They're incredibly rare in lore, but I can still chose to play one. Ditto for male Viera. They're incredibly rare and like to separate themselves from society, but they exist, and if Viera exist as a playable race, lore shouldn't restrict the choice to play as that sex. They can be so rare that there's MAYBE one NPC we see that's a male viera, or maybe none, but they can still exist as a character model players can use.

[Razard]

The majority of those who do live above ground, also, live in Gridania making up less than 10% of the population there. So.... even lower percentage of people living in the most populous region of their habitation are Duskwights than the percentage of Viera born male.... yet no males, because lore?

There's the difference my friend.

A 10% still means you will run into Duskwights at some point in Gridania. No one outside of Viera society has even seen a male viera or have never lived to tell the tale.

So "Muh lore reason" is valid in this case.

[Arkdra]

So "Muh lore reason" is valid in this case.

Lore is never a valid reason because these fools write the lore. Nobody's forcing them to write that male Viera may as well not exist since nobody sees them. Which is why lore reasons are incredibly dumb. 100% guaranteed they wrote that bit of lore after deciding on the races to ass cover.

I don't care about male viera and female hrothgar specifically, but I do care that we are getting genderlocked races in 2019 like that isn't dumb as hell. Also mad they can't wear hats or glasses. Not gonna cancel or anything over it, I can still play my cat just like I have been so it's whatever on a practical level. But I don't like this regressive crap sneaking in (like when they said they wanted to offer more gender distinct outfits during the artist panel at EU, my eyes rolled out of my skull). Thought they got it when they added the bunny outfits for boys, but nothing since then and that took 2 years to do so maybe not.

[Korihu]

This basically, Yoshi even went into a large explanation as to why there wouldn't be a male vierra due to them being in hiding based on their Lore.

Ah yes, every single male viera ever in existence stays in hiding. None ever dare have any thoughts about exploring the world and venturing out. You know, like how that is basically the story for most adventurers leaving their society to explore~!

I wonder why, perhaps the person who designed them just didn't want to have to imagine bunny boys in heels since they tried so hard to justify women warriors wearing heels that the males would have them too. EDIT: I was just informed that the designer for Viera said he didn't involve in making why Viera are female only in this game. So it's the decision of people from FFXIV development?

They can add exceptions because you know, in a society, not everyone is the exact same. They have different personalities and some won't necessarily be happy where they are. They added exceptions like this so we can play say the Duskwight, male cats, heck, wouldn't Xaela not really be outside of the steppes either? This is lore that they made, so it's what they can change, and ultimately tells what they think.


I agree on one thing though, people do need to stop the bullying a little. I don't think it's as much homophobia as it is, a little sexism they don't realise about. But people should let their voices be known, just in a proper way to show our point and not get dismissed.

[Senn]

I wonder why, perhaps the person who designed them just didn't want to have to imagine bunny boys in heels since they tried so hard to justify women warriors wearing heels that the males would have them too.

Yasumi Matsuno is the person who created viera, right?
Apparently, Matsuno rejected rumors that he was the one to limit viera to female only in ffxiv
https://twitter.com/YasumiMatsuno/st...97812078891008
https://twitter.com/corps_a_corps/st...11113429958657

[Crushnight]

The thing about using lore is its ramifications as by using no male has ever left means no male since the race's birth/evolution has ever got the slightest sense of curiosity to want to leave/be unhappy with how their society has forced their lifestyle. This type of behavior in a species that has evolved to have speech in any given environment is impossible fantasy race or not. There is no way i can ever believe given what male Viera have to go through throughout their lives that they would all be content with that lifestyle since the dawn of their race.

Yoshi was lying when he said lore was the reason we can't play as them the true reason he won't say because it would either show their true mindset and it would get flack rightfully so if its what i think it is, or higher ups demanded no. Yoshi if its the latter might use the backlash this decision has caused as a lever to allow male viera in future, but until he openly acknowledges how this has upset the community and at least offers an apology for not clarifying that there would be gender locks at Paris with the reveal of Viera he and his devs are on thin ice with me with regards to me playing.