Thoughts on Dancer as a Ranged DPS

[Sunako]

No where in game does it state "basic composition is 1 ranged, 1 caster and 2 melee DPS"... In most places it just says "(2 tanks, 2 healers, 4 DPS)" in brackets for most 8-man DF instances. In the few cases it DOES specify, it is 1 melee, 1 ranged, 1 caster and 1 "other" that is a duplicate of the three. The "meta" favored 2 melees because in ARR the highest DPS and utility lied within the melee role (MNK and NIN). In HW "meta" dropped off the caster in favore of 2 ranged to buff the highest DPS which lied, again, in the melee role (DRG+NIN). In Stormblood, the highest DPS has been in the caster role since 4.1, but people have been so used to their meta that didn't want to break from it. FFLogs recently (since 4.4) started taking double caster comps that are closing in for the fastest kills.

Here's the source from game to the party composition:


Now we have 6 "ranged" DPS to choose from and only 4 melee.. It's high time we see more variety over this "double melee meta" that I've personally grown very bored of.

I did not say what is basic composition in game, I said what is basic composition in partyfinder. I have cleared every savage turn via pf during stormblood and I know exactly what most players demand there and why. You can clear any savage even with 4 ranged or 4 melee, that is not the case. The thing is most melee have different gear set while casters have their own and physical ranged have their own gear set. Ppl not wanna share loot between multiple casters or ranged, because gearing take longer that way. If you play 2 melee + caster + ranged, everybody have their own (left side)gear set and there is no competition and you get what you want if it drop. If you have that opportunity, you wanna use it.

[Phoenicia]

I did not say what is basic composition in game, I said what is basic composition in partyfinder. I have cleared every savage turn via pf during stormblood and I know exactly what most players demand there and why. You can clear any savage even with 4 ranged or 4 melee, that is not the case. The thing is most melee have different gear set while casters have their own and physical ranged have their own gear set. Ppl not wanna share loot between multiple casters or ranged, because gearing take longer that way. If you play 2 melee + caster + ranged, everybody have their own (left side)gear set and there is no competition and you get what you want if it drop. If you have that opportunity, you wanna use it.

Even with that, EVERY melee shares loot with someone. SAM and MNK share all gear. DRG also shares right side with them. NIN shares right side with BRD/MCH. Meta took BRD+MCH and completely locked casters out...

Also tanks and healers forcefully share loot, and was even worse before SB when they waited in line for STR accessories. Why shouldn't DPS "ever" share loot? Entitled much?

Upgrade items, weapon token and coffer are all already shared between the 8 players involved. Also let's not pretend pages don't exist and that roughly half the raid gear isn't even BiS. So loot, while still is a concern, was never the "first concern" in PF -or any raid- composition choices since successfully clearing should be the bigger concern or you won't get that loot in the first place.

Since when did PF become a gospel anyway? PF tends to be just sheep blindly following the shepherds also known as "cutting edge raiders" and/or "speed runners" without understanding where they have nothing backing up their claims except "so or so done so and you're an idiot for not agreeing with them".

Just look at all the tanks that never step into tank stance because Xeno said it's bad some 2 years ago or healers that only heal with oGCDs and will let you die if it wasn't enough because some SCH healed all of Chaos with 1 healing GCD leaving out important variables such as gear and extreme skill of those players and the rest of their teams. Then said players get very toxic when they die parroting things like: "I had CD up, y u no heal?!" or "you had excog, y u die?!" forgetting that their gear and skill are lacking. But that's derailing and I only wanted to mention an example.

But...the picture you posted, circled in red, illustrates that the game treats physical ranged and magical ranged as separate. 3 phys ranged, 3 casters, not 6 ranged. Unless I'm misunderstanding you somewhere.

The game does treat them as different roles in high-end duties but the same in PvP. And all DPS jobs as 1 role everywhere else (dungeons, 24 mans, non-latest extreme primal). Regardless of that, my point, however, is that there is more not-melee than there are melee and if you are concerned about "balance job choices" then break out of the double melee.

[Dualgunner]

No where in game does it state "basic composition is 1 ranged, 1 caster and 2 melee DPS"... In most places it just says "(2 tanks, 2 healers, 4 DPS)" in brackets for most 8-man DF instances. In the few cases it DOES specify, it is 1 melee, 1 ranged, 1 caster and 1 "other" that is a duplicate of the three. The "meta" favored 2 melees because in ARR the highest DPS and utility lied within the melee role (MNK and NIN). In HW "meta" dropped off the caster in favore of 2 ranged to buff the highest DPS which lied, again, in the melee role (DRG+NIN). In Stormblood, the highest DPS has been in the caster role since 4.1, but people have been so used to their meta that didn't want to break from it. FFLogs recently (since 4.4) started taking double caster comps that are closing in for the fastest kills.

Here's the source from game to the party composition:


Now we have 6 "ranged" DPS to choose from and only 4 melee.. It's high time we see more variety over this "double melee meta" that I've personally grown very bored of.

But...the picture you posted, circled in red, illustrates that the game treats physical ranged and magical ranged as separate. 3 phys ranged, 3 casters, not 6 ranged. Unless I'm misunderstanding you somewhere.

[Layla-chan]

As a BRD main, I'm gonna try DNC and make it my main if I like it enough.

[zferolie]

I was expecting/hoping it was going to be a melee healer, but I mostly just wanted dancer, so happy for that. I am expecting they may be more supportive then the machinist or bard, with unique support skills.

Right now I am trying to design an outfit I want to use for her. I am trying to make something close to a flamingo dancer outfit, but also with the Amon hat because I love that hat(still need to get it). Right now I am using astern Socialite dress as it looks the closest, with the Bunny pumps and Thanalarian pants for the leggings and underware. I was thinking the bunny bottoms for fishnnet but don't want the bunny tail. Any other fish net clothes in the game?

[Osmond]

Was quite surprised that it was going to be a ranged DPS, but not upset at the decision. Right now i'm curious on how this will deal w/ MCH since it lacking party utility other than a dmg debuff on the enemy. Unless 5.x series made it to where MCH can actually buff the party in some way via a overdrive ability(bishop's physical dmg buff/rook's magical dmg buff), you'll just see all just DNCs or BRDs in parties. MCH looks like it's in trouble.

[KageTokage]

I'm really hoping DNC uses scouting gear because I don't think BRD/MCH need more competition and NIN has had its monopoly long enough.

That and I'd like to be able to gear another DPS alongside my main class for once.

Was quite surprised that it was going to be a ranged DPS, but not upset at the decision. Right now i'm curious on how this will deal w/ MCH since it lacking party utility other than a dmg debuff on the enemy. Unless 5.x series made it to where MCH can actually buff the party in some way via a overdrive ability(bishop's physical dmg buff/rook's magical dmg buff), you'll just see all just DNCs or BRDs in parties. MCH looks like it's in trouble.

If MCH is lacking in support, they can simply crank up its personal DPS appropriately to make it like the BLM/SAM of ranged classes.

[Hustensaft]

If MCH is lacking in support, they can simply crank up its personal DPS appropriately to make it like the BLM/SAM of ranged classes.

That's the theory... and probably also the case in game. People just don't follow it in practice, because "OMG BUFFS!!!!!!".

There could exist a world where the optimal raid setup is MCH, SAM, BLM and SMN - simple because personal DPS outperforms whatever raid DPS Trick Attack and BRD-support provides. At that point noone needs a "physical ranged DPS/support".

That's also why the only classification for DNC that matters is "DPS". It's competing with all DPS spots for the optimal raid DPS. It being ranged, magical, physical, platonic, or whatever else you'd call it doesn't matter.

[Dralonis]

I'm actually sorta surprised but only because I didn't think they'd actually make a tank without a healer counterpart. I'm sorta happy though that I was right that they'd have dual chakrams as weapons. Been speculating it for a long time since it would be unique enough. Only reason I'd figure it would be ok for them to be healers was because they had a few heals here and there with their dances and didn't think they'd do 3 classes again but was wondering what they'd do about the lack of a 3rd physical range slot. I'd expect it to be easier since the new classes have been sorta like that. Also, less ping dependent. Probably how this 5.0 class changes will be.

Now to wait for Green mage/oracle hybrid for a healer with a hammer (sad it wouldn't be a viking with a hammer) and Geomancer with maybe a bell? As the 4th caster DPS. BLU being a caster dps I feel is only a "temp" slot on caster and will be under the limited job slot once they add BST and PUP. They've already said they think the idea fits them as a limited job more than anything else.

[Duskane]

im hoping its bard with not a basic play style
plus itll probably using scouting gear which will be nice