Thoughts on Dancer as a Ranged DPS

[Grimoire-M]

Dragoons were required...

I'm gonna hit ya back with the other thing that makes DRG required with BRD specifically. Crit. Rate. Boosts. Matter. Piercing was not the only component of their raid DPS. Dragon Sight and Battle Litany commonly both went on the Bard when they aligned. And when they align you also know that SCH's Chain Stratagem, MCH/SMN/RDM's raid buffs, and NIN's Trick Attack would line up as well, and Bard exploits all of that extremely well. Litany makes up more of DRG's total raid DPS contribution than people give it credit for. Both it and Piercing are comparable to Trick Attack than other raid buffs in the right composition.

That synergy is not dying unless Bard gets a static proc rate rework. And even then Monk and the general fact that crit stacking is exponential remains. I imagine DRG will need a personal DPS boost to make up for Piercing but they will 100% remain a strong melee contender at worst.


That aside, I'm hoping SE doesn't wind up making Dancer's utility equivalent to Bard's in value. Their rotation I'm sure will be distinct. This is the only thing that worries me.

[zferolie]

Not sure why everyone is thinking Dancer will get ninja gear. All the Magical DPS share the same gear, same as tank and healer, so why not Ranged Melee? It would be weird that 1 ranged DPS would not share with the other 2 when all of them are a mix of DPS and support.

As for the style, I can see the ranged DPS in 5.0 following this set up: Machinist being more DPS with just a little support(like others have said the black mage of Physical), Bard being an even mix, and Dancer being more support heavy then personal DPS. They easily could be very buff happy but by themselves they aren't DPS masters. instead they bring a ton of Buffs for allies for attack, defense, and other ways. Maybe a Dance that has health Regen(like how Red mage can be a back up healer), a haste dance, and also Dances to effect enemies like a slow dance, and a sleep skill like dance(would instead be mesmerize that makes a group of enemies just watch her dance and do nothing during it)

[Iscah]

If it's scouting, I'm gonna have to figure out how glamour plates work because Weeping City scouting set doesn't scream dancer at all.

If aiming, then same because Rabanastre set barely screams bard let alone dancer.

Glamour plates are pretty easy to work with! Just have a play around at the inn. And once you've set up your plate, it's a five-second process to reapply it over whatever gear you're currently wearing, as long as you're in a location where plates can be applied.

Not sure why everyone is thinking Dancer will get ninja gear. All the Magical DPS share the same gear, same as tank and healer, so why not Ranged Melee? It would be weird that 1 ranged DPS would not share with the other 2 when all of them are a mix of DPS and support.

Magical DPS all have one type of gear, but Melee DPS have three different types. So not a strict rule.

Also it would make gear distribution in dungeons more even, if there are two classes needing Scouting gear instead of ninja getting it all for itself, while three classes all compete for Aiming gear.

And aesthetically there is more scouting gear than aiming gear that looks like it would suit a dancer.



If it's Scouting gear, I'm thinking of either the Ghost Barque Himation, Torrent Tabard or maybe Bloodhempen Vest for early-level gear, depending on what the job-specific starter gear looks like. And the Ala Mhigan Tunic at Lv70, which I really like but wouldn't be right for ninja gear.

[Hustensaft]

That synergy is not dying unless Bard gets a static proc rate rework. And even then Monk and the general fact that crit stacking is exponential remains. I imagine DRG will need a personal DPS boost to make up for Piercing but they will 100% remain a strong melee contender at worst.

Currently NIN is already (frequently) taken out in favour of other jobs with much higher personal DPS, and weaker (to no) group buffs (whatever your group doesn't currently take). Then you can ask why doesn't this happen for DRG and BRD?

Because their personal DPS is higher, and their support is universal. RDM is restricted to physical support, SMN only supports magical, and MNK also only supports physical. That's not only incredible hard to tune across raid setups, but also highly restrictive on raid setups. If you take DRG + BRD on the other hand, you get consistent DPS with 2 variable slots.

If you add DNCas another BRD (with unique, stackable buffs) into the equation, the jobs/slots most likely to be dropped are the restrictive ones (with no or magic support).

[Feidam]

i wouldn't have cared if we healers didn't get screwed again grats dps once again you get something new while healers get screwrd

This is not a gift to all dps. Like healers some folks only play melee, caster, or physical ranged. So to some they were left out, as well, while physical ranged players got a new class. Some folks play everything. It’s ok that every role doesn’t get something. I mean we all like new toys, but it’s ok. I mainly play casters and healers btw.

[zferolie]

Glamour plates are pretty easy to work with! Just have a play around at the inn. And once you've set up your plate, it's a five-second process to reapply it over whatever gear you're currently wearing, as long as you're in a location where plates can be applied.





Magical DPS all have one type of gear, but Melee DPS have three different types. So not a strict rule.

Also it would make gear distribution in dungeons more even, if there are two classes needing Scouting gear instead of ninja getting it all for itself, while three classes all compete for Aiming gear.

And aesthetically there is more scouting gear than aiming gear that looks like it would suit a dancer.



If it's Scouting gear, I'm thinking of either the Ghost Barque Himation, Torrent Tabard or maybe Bloodhempen Vest for early-level gear, depending on what the job-specific starter gear looks like. And the Ala Mhigan Tunic at Lv70, which I really like but wouldn't be right for ninja gear.

It's true more ninja gear would fit the Dancer look wise... but part of me hopes its aiming gear so I could use the Amon hat with my dancer. Been toying around with looks and got this set up going(have myself dancing to fit the dancer theme)



Using Amon's Hat , Eastern Socialite's Cheongsam , Witch's Gloves , Bunny Chief Tights, and Bunny Chief Pumps. Wanted to go for a close Flamenco Dancer look, but extra flamboiant with Amon's Hat. If the class shares ninja gear I have no idea what to replace the hat with

[Dyvid]

Currently NIN is already (frequently) taken out in favour of other jobs with much higher personal DPS, and weaker (to no) group buffs (whatever your group doesn't currently take). Then you can ask why doesn't this happen for DRG and BRD?

Because their personal DPS is higher, and their support is universal. RDM is restricted to physical support, SMN only supports magical, and MNK also only supports physical. That's not only incredible hard to tune across raid setups, but also highly restrictive on raid setups. If you take DRG + BRD on the other hand, you get consistent DPS with 2 variable slots.

If you add DNCas another BRD (with unique, stackable buffs) into the equation, the jobs/slots most likely to be dropped are the restrictive ones (with no or magic support).

So I'm going to take a step back and look at the big picture here. First we know TP is being removed from the game. Second, we know SE defines Physical Ranged DPS as: Physical ranged DPS attack foes from a distance. They excel at inflicting sustained damage, and also provide support for companions. Third we know SE felt the need to add a third Ranged DPS to balance out BRD and MCH.

Obviously the removal of TP is a big impact on Ranged, though 4.0 did muddy up what DPS role did what. 3.0 MCH and BRD restore TP/MP and buff/debuff to increase party DPS. 4.0 all Melee have Goad and all Caster have Mana Shift. MCH went more of a DPS route and SMN started to buff/debuff. I'm guessing 5.0 SE is going to do some tweaking in terms of defining what each DPS role in a party is with BRD, DNC, and MCH restoring resources / buffing the group. Caster will be debuff and burst damage, and melee would be split between straight DPS and DPS plus something.

[Grimoire-M]

Currently NIN is already (frequently) taken out in favour of other jobs with much higher personal DPS, and weaker (to no) group buffs (whatever your group doesn't currently take). Then you can ask why doesn't this happen for DRG and BRD?

To put it in context piercing for BRD alone is worth about 40% of DRG's total raid contribution. Litany equalled it in value almost irregardless of your comp. Dragon Sight tipped them over NIN in total raid DPS contribution. It's notable that TA only works on one target which lets DRG and many other DPS get ahead of NIN in raid contribution on fights like O12S M/F and O7S where multiple targets are common and damage has to be spread around to deal with them. If your DPS weren't multi-dotting on those fights they were doing something wrong. And NIN's personal DPS is actually the lowest of all classes at the moment, neck and neck with DRG. NIN/DRG/BRD/RDM are actually pretty close in personal contributions. Their raid contribution is what lets them get ahead at all right now, because the gap between them and SAM/BLM is covered by the contributions of TA, of which 3/4 of those classes can do that currently.

So, yes, DRG needs a personal DPS buff if piercing goes. Not a lot, mind you, just something to put them in the middle of the pack with Machinist. MCH apart from QoL is probably the most balanced class at the moment, which probably means they're the second worst after RDM, but that gap is big enough that they're workable once they get fixed.

RDM is struggling to get ahead of Bard and doesn't offer enough of a raid DPS boost to bring outside of prog or preference. If for some reason BRD doesn't have a DRG then they're better than BRD.

SMN needs Contagion with BLM to come to the level of DRG/NIN in raid contribution but without it they bring enough personal DPS to get by with Ifrit in most comps. They're by far the biggest outlier here and warrant either a personal DPS nerf or a raid contribution change.

MNK needs double ranged or triple melee to work but their raid buff is pathetic. It's all about their personal DPS when 6/8 of their group procs Brotherhood. They like BRD/DRG the most because of all the crit too, meaning the last DPS is probably MCH or NIN. They'll probably really enjoy being in a triple ranged comp next expansion if DRG doesn't get enough of a personal DPS boost to compensate for piercing.

SAM does not care who they have and can fit into weird comps like triple caster (or probably triple ranged next expansion) just fine thanks to their personal DPS, but they like raid buffs that actually work with them so SMN catering to the BLM makes them cry.

[Fland]

This is not a gift to all dps. Like healers some folks only play melee, caster, or physical ranged. So to some they were left out, as well, while physical ranged players got a new class. Some folks play everything. It’s ok that every role doesn’t get something. I mean we all like new toys, but it’s ok. I mainly play casters and healers btw.

Yeah but melee and caster got new job this expansion. Which means, with this and the next expansion, only healers doesn't get new job to play with.
Healer is the only one left out across two expansions.

[Shadygrove]

zferolie, its flamenco NOT flamingo.