Male Viera... Unsubbing for now.

[Physic]

Sure

The women locked race is sexy lingerie ladies and the dude locked race are giant power fantasy muscle dudes. And that plays into "gender norms", only serve to eliminate options for those people who want to express themselves in game who might not fall in these gender norms. Like say a tall lithe sexy lingerie man bunny. Or a Giant hulking muscley lion lady.

So that's where it is

Those terms are criticism and meant to inspire introspection, you purely taking it as an insult and not a claim that is made because of an issue. Is a problem

male power fantasy being bulky is questionable at best. The idealized male in most cultures and history is not traditionally bulky. Vierra were vierra since ff12, they were always going to look like that.

also i would question whether either thing is "sexist" being that they exist in a game with many other options. Hrothgar specifically is closest to roe, which is the least popular, and kinda throws your male fantasy to appeal to the masses thing in the garbage.

also, you talk about people that want to express themselves on way as if they have more right to a race than the other groups.

there is one bulky male race, 2 athletic male races, and 3 that are average/slim. it sounds like hrothgar is actually giving people more male options rather than less. And bulky male is far from a gender norm in ff.

[Sheriyana]

It's utterly baffling to me that there are a lot of you laughing and making fun of people who are upset about this. "This is nothing new, there's plenty of MMOs with gender locked races". Yeah, so what? In case you didn't know, this is Final Fantasy XIV, gender locked races haven't been a thing since 1.0 and for good reason. Why are you so against giving people more options? How does it hurt you if there's male Viera?

I know there's a lot of hyperbole going around, and that tends to happen when a company makes decisions that make no sense like these. I personally won't unsub over it but my faith in this game has been shaken once again, severely diminishing my excitement for Shadowbringers. I totally respect anyone who feels like they don't want to support SE with this happening. People are allowed to voice their opinion and it's their right as a customer to stop supporting a product they're not happy with. And to the people saying it's ridiculous to get upset over cosmetics, ever heard of the phrase "glamour is endgame"? Cosmetics are one of the most important parts when it comes to any online game, you want your character to stand out and for it to look exactly like you want it to. From MMOs to even basic online shooters, the whole reward systems are based around skins and cosmetic customization.

I want to say it again since I don't think it can be stressed enough, why are you advocating for less content, for less options?

[Imuka]

why is having a male vierra superior to having a male hrothgar. In reality hrothgar is breaking more new ground in terms of charachter variety than vierra. Also resources is a major consideration for all content, And i think race is substantially more costly(keep in mind all old armor and new armor must be adjusted for each race), and less neccessary for a game, than developing new game mechanics/events. Like diadem, not to say diadem was a success, but they have to attempt to make new interesting combat related content.

I just went for this way, because the Viera were already shown in the Game. If they would have shown the Hrothgar first, I would have gone for the Hrothgar. I did not even put one Race above the other. But the Hrothgar would have been more of a surprise with 5.1 or 5.2, than the Viera.

And trying new stuff like the Diadem was fine. But if it fails, drop the Idea or at least do one new try in the next Addon, but instead Yoshi keeps on clinging to this Idea of a instanced Fate Farm Area with Trash Mob Grind.
We got two Diadems and he got a lot of bad Feedback and then he went for 4 instances of Eureka, while his basic Idea got a lot of negative Feedback and he was not sure if people like it.
And the Feedback is again pretty mixed.

There is a Game Design Concept called "Fail Faster". Come up with an Idea and try it as soon as possible if it is fun, before you start to feel attached to it and wasted time and money.
If you played the Witcher3, did you know, that there was a different Combat System in Development? With aiming at certain Bodyparts and Combat Stances.
There was a small Team working on the whole thing for I think 3 Months and then the whole thing was scrapped, because it was not fun to begin with an made Combat often unnecessary complicated. So many Hours and so much Money pumped into a dead Idea, because instead of trying it on a small Scale, they went straight for the full development.

And sometimes I feel Yoshi gets much to attached to his Ideas before they test them and later is unable to drop them, no matter of the Feedback.
Something 11 Players told me was that the Devs tried new things and if the Players did not liked them, they got dropped for the Future and they tried something else instead.
People liked it = give them more
People dislike it = scrap the Moneyeater

[Villa101]

And why do you think it even is about 'gender norms'? Like others have mentioned, it can easily be trying to appease to two bases with what development time possible, where do you and everyone else claiming these 'gender norm' 'power fantasy' introverted thought processes come to just this one conclusion?

Using loaded terms for introspection is still not criticism, you can in fact, avoid using those words and still provide an adequate response. Those two terms are nothing more than agenda pushers and only serve to divide and harm.


Honestly, everyone that hates these announcements cling to this one thing, just this one bloody thing, and fail to even see the possibility or other rationales. I do hope you can see that, but I sincerely doubt it.

One , which why you shouldn't take it as an insult or " Loaded " but a reason to do introspection is. You can fuck up and do sexist stuff while not meaning to do it. And two because it conforms to those gender norms, YoshiP himself said that " male bunny's would be weird" in an interview to deny that had nothing to do with this decision is silly .

Whether its " this one bloody thing " or not is irrelevant , its not about intent, its about results.

[ThunderGodThor]

It's utterly baffling to me that there are a lot of you laughing and making fun of people who are upset about this. "This is nothing new, there's plenty of MMOs with gender locked races". Yeah, so what? In case you didn't know, this is Final Fantasy XIV, gender locked races haven't been a thing since 1.0 and for good reason. Why are you so against giving people more options? How does it hurt you if there's male Viera?

I know there's a lot of hyperbole going around, and that tends to happen when a company makes decisions that make no sense like these. I personally won't unsub over it but my faith in this game has been shaken once again, severely diminishing my excitement for Shadowbringers. I totally respect anyone who feels like they don't want to support SE with this happening. People are allowed to voice their opinion and it's their right as a customer to stop supporting a product they're not happy with. And to the people saying it's ridiculous to get upset over cosmetics, ever heard of the phrase "glamour is endgame"? Cosmetics are one of the most important parts when it comes to any online game, you want your character to stand out and for it to look exactly like you want it to. From MMOs to even basic online shooters, the whole reward systems are based around skins and cosmetic customization.

I want to say it again since I don't think it can be stressed enough, why are you advocating for less content, for less options?

Okie dokie, cosmetics are true end game- delete mogstation then :3

[Tharne]

And bulky male is far from a gender norm in ff.

Barret, Kimahri (little bit less bulky than our new Hrothgar) aaaaaand that's all I think.

[Dreamsoap]

Let me just say I'm a female myself and wanted to change into a pretty bunny boy. If male players play females and dress them into next to nothing why can't we do the same? But apparently they care more to pander to the furries than to those who wanted a bishounen bunny race. And I'm not claiming any political outrage here, I just think that overall male Viera would have been more popular than what we got. I am disappointed and my hype for Shadowbringers is gone, this and the lack of a new healer job? Sorry but what are you doing SE?

Same, I was looking forward to turning my alt into a bunny dude. : (

[Imuka]

Sweeping generalization there. Not a particularly overwhelming number of people play those modes, but people still enjoy them. I'm going to have to digress here, as my question was initially why people picked now to unsub after getting what they asked for, though not in its entirety, after we had 4 years of nothing at all. It is a tantrum. A tantrum thrown even after the devs warned us 6 years ago that the implementation of Viera might have to be genderlocked.

The last time, I entered the Lord of Verminion Tournament months ago, I was on the second place...because there were just 4 Players on my Server playing it.
And the only reason I was even able to play it, was because I played against a Friend.
So, there were just 3 (2) other Players on the whole Server.

Astralagos is only played on one evening per Week on my...I think Server or maybe Datacenter.
I know that, because someone told me about a Linkshell for that mode, to farm for the Mount.
They needed a Linkshell to fill that place, because like they said "Otherwise this place looks like a Graveyard.".

[Villa101]

male power fantasy being bulky is questionable at best. The idealized male in most cultures and history is not traditionally bulky. Vierra were vierra since ff12, they were always going to look like that.

also i would question whether either thing is "sexist" being that they exist in a game with many other options. Hrothgar specifically is closest to roe, which is the least popular, and kinda throws your male fantasy to appeal to the masses thing in the garbage.

also, you talk about people that want to express themselves on way as if they have more right to a race than the other groups.

there is one bulky male race, 2 athletic male races, and 3 that are average/slim. it sounds like hrothgar is actually giving people more male options rather than less. And bulky male is far from a gender norm in ff.

We aren't talking about history. We are talking about now, and still to this day a muscular ass dude with a giant weapon in modern fiction is the male power fantasy in a lot of ways. And I wasn't suggesting Vierra change, just they included pretty male ones, as well.

2) roe being least popular doesn't throw that away. Because

- There might just be a lot of women and LGBTQ folks who play ff14 and have no interest in playing roe

- The men playing this game might be satisfied enough by how muscular the humans are. Or might find roe visually unappealing for other reasons.

Just because the roe and the lion boys potentially not being successful doesn't mean that they do not fall into that category. Infact it makes me question why SE made this decision in the first place.

No one is claiming people have more right to anything. I'm arguing for inclusion would literally make everyone happy.

ff14 doesn't exist in a vaccume, every mmo has giant muscle orc men. Having one that had more less giant and manly and prittier dudes, is a novel idea that should be embraced. Having more options for things like that is better options, and they could have just added the lion dudes later

[Sheriyana]

Okie dokie, cosmetics are true end game- delete mogstation then :3

I don't know what the mogstation has to do with any of this. The phrase means that the endgame is making the perfect outfits for your character and at "endgame" you have access to most options since you don't have to worry about being restricted by level. And yes, the outfits can also consist of mogstation pieces.