Male Viera... Unsubbing for now.

[Senliten]

Saying someone is being sexist or homophobic is not an insult, its a criticism, you can choose to ignore or look into . But uh yeah, the fact that you view that purely as an insult instead of someone might be calling you that possibly for a reason, might be an issue.

Bullshit, if you can't back the claim up due to how loaded those terms are, then it is not criticism and it is flat out insulting. Show us where this sexism is? With unbiased, logical, and critical thinking taken into mass account.

[Villa101]

Bullshit, if you can't back the claim up due to how loaded those terms are, then it is not criticism and it is flat out insulting. Show us where this sexism is? With unbiased, logical, and critical thinking taken into mass account.

Sure

The women locked race is sexy lingerie ladies and the dude locked race are giant power fantasy muscle dudes. And that plays into "gender norms", only serve to eliminate options for those people who want to express themselves in game who might not fall in these gender norms. Like say a tall lithe sexy lingerie man bunny. Or a Giant hulking muscley lion lady.

So that's where it is

Those terms are criticism and meant to inspire introspection, you purely taking it as an insult and not a claim that is made because of an issue. Is a problem

[Senliten]

Sure

The women locked race is sexy lingerie ladies and the dude locked race are giant power fantasy muscle dudes. And that plays into "gender norms", only serve to eliminate options for those people who want to express themselves in game who might not fall in these gender norms. Like say a tall lithe sexy lingerie man bunny. Or a Giant hulking muscley lion lady.

So that's where it is

Those terms are criticism and meant to inspire introspection, you purely taking it as an insult and not a claim that is made because of an issue. Is a problem

And why do you think it even is about 'gender norms'? Like others have mentioned, it can easily be trying to appease to two bases with what development time possible, where do you and everyone else claiming these 'gender norm' 'power fantasy' introverted thought processes come to just this one conclusion?

Using loaded terms for introspection is still not criticism, you can in fact, avoid using those words and still provide an adequate response. Those two terms are nothing more than agenda pushers and only serve to divide and harm.


Honestly, everyone that hates these announcements cling to this one thing, just this one bloody thing, and fail to even see the possibility or other rationales. I do hope you can see that, but I sincerely doubt it.

[Villa101]

And why do you think it even is about 'gender norms'? Like others have mentioned, it can easily be trying to appease to two bases with what development time possible, where do you and everyone else claiming these 'gender norm' 'power fantasy' introverted thought processes come to just this one conclusion?

Using loaded terms for introspection is still not criticism, you can in fact, avoid using those words and still provide an adequate response. Those two terms are nothing more than agenda pushers and only serve to divide and harm.


Honestly, everyone that hates these announcements cling to this one thing, just this one bloody thing, and fail to even see the possibility or other rationales. I do hope you can see that, but I sincerely doubt it.

One , which why you shouldn't take it as an insult or " Loaded " but a reason to do introspection is. You can fuck up and do sexist stuff while not meaning to do it. And two because it conforms to those gender norms, YoshiP himself said that " male bunny's would be weird" in an interview to deny that had nothing to do with this decision is silly .

Whether its " this one bloody thing " or not is irrelevant , its not about intent, its about results.

[Senliten]

One , which why you shouldn't take it as an insult or " Loaded " but a reason to do introspection is. You can fuck up and do sexist stuff while not meaning to do it.

Sooo they should walk on eggshells daily? Ok, got it

And two because it conforms to those gender norms, YoshiP himself said that " male bunny's would be weird" in an interview to deny that had nothing to do with this decision is silly .

Annnnd once again, can you prove that when he stated this... nearly a good few years ago, that it was even about gender norms? Which of course once again, if you read past it, they make mention of wanted to create another race. To put it short, you can't. Cause you can only put your own perception on what you think might be why, when in short it can be more than just your own narrow sighted view.

Whether its " this one bloody thing " or not is irrelevant , its not about intent, its about results.

Pretty relevant in all honesty. Seeing you don't want to question it yourself that it could easily be something else at all, no, it has to be this one exact reason and nothing more.
And it's easily both, their intent was clearly to try and appease a base or two with what they could, and jury for the results are still out to lunch and will only be known upon the expansions release.

[ThunderGodThor]

Reasonable stuff

Don't bother arguing with him. If people want to throw accusations and insults, don't engage with them. Let them stew in their negativity.

[Villa101]

Sooo they should walk on eggshells daily? Ok, got it

Yes... they are a giant company. When you are more visible you have greater responsibilities to not mess up than, joeshcmo on the street. They should be more calculated in how they approach things. Especially things they got shit for previously.

Annnnd once again, can you prove that when he stated this... nearly a good few years ago, that it was even about gender norms? Which of course once again, if you read past it, they make mention of wanted to create another race. To put it short, you can't. Cause you can only put your own perception on what you think might be why, when in short it can be more than just your own narrow sighted view.

If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck.

Pretty relevant in all honesty. Seeing you don't want to question it yourself that it could easily be something else at all, no, it has to be this one exact reason and nothing more.
And it's easily both, their intent was clearly to try and appease a base or two with what they could, and jury for the results are still out to lunch and will only be known upon the expansions release.

Answer what? When I say its irrelevant I mean that, what you intended to do is irrelevant if the result is bad. If you shoot me in the face and say " i meant to shoot the deer" you shot me in the face, I got messed up. That's it.

[Physic]

Sure

The women locked race is sexy lingerie ladies and the dude locked race are giant power fantasy muscle dudes. And that plays into "gender norms", only serve to eliminate options for those people who want to express themselves in game who might not fall in these gender norms. Like say a tall lithe sexy lingerie man bunny. Or a Giant hulking muscley lion lady.

So that's where it is

Those terms are criticism and meant to inspire introspection, you purely taking it as an insult and not a claim that is made because of an issue. Is a problem

male power fantasy being bulky is questionable at best. The idealized male in most cultures and history is not traditionally bulky. Vierra were vierra since ff12, they were always going to look like that.

also i would question whether either thing is "sexist" being that they exist in a game with many other options. Hrothgar specifically is closest to roe, which is the least popular, and kinda throws your male fantasy to appeal to the masses thing in the garbage.

also, you talk about people that want to express themselves on way as if they have more right to a race than the other groups.

there is one bulky male race, 2 athletic male races, and 3 that are average/slim. it sounds like hrothgar is actually giving people more male options rather than less. And bulky male is far from a gender norm in ff.

[Tharne]

And bulky male is far from a gender norm in ff.

Barret, Kimahri (little bit less bulky than our new Hrothgar) aaaaaand that's all I think.

[Villa101]

male power fantasy being bulky is questionable at best. The idealized male in most cultures and history is not traditionally bulky. Vierra were vierra since ff12, they were always going to look like that.

also i would question whether either thing is "sexist" being that they exist in a game with many other options. Hrothgar specifically is closest to roe, which is the least popular, and kinda throws your male fantasy to appeal to the masses thing in the garbage.

also, you talk about people that want to express themselves on way as if they have more right to a race than the other groups.

there is one bulky male race, 2 athletic male races, and 3 that are average/slim. it sounds like hrothgar is actually giving people more male options rather than less. And bulky male is far from a gender norm in ff.

We aren't talking about history. We are talking about now, and still to this day a muscular ass dude with a giant weapon in modern fiction is the male power fantasy in a lot of ways. And I wasn't suggesting Vierra change, just they included pretty male ones, as well.

2) roe being least popular doesn't throw that away. Because

- There might just be a lot of women and LGBTQ folks who play ff14 and have no interest in playing roe

- The men playing this game might be satisfied enough by how muscular the humans are. Or might find roe visually unappealing for other reasons.

Just because the roe and the lion boys potentially not being successful doesn't mean that they do not fall into that category. Infact it makes me question why SE made this decision in the first place.

No one is claiming people have more right to anything. I'm arguing for inclusion would literally make everyone happy.

ff14 doesn't exist in a vaccume, every mmo has giant muscle orc men. Having one that had more less giant and manly and prittier dudes, is a novel idea that should be embraced. Having more options for things like that is better options, and they could have just added the lion dudes later