Male Viera as a playable character! show your support

[Beatrice]

Even though I'd never play a male character myself, I absolutely support getting male Viera. I've never liked gender locked races. More choices are great, even if it's choices I wouldn't personally use for myself.

[Halivel]

Why not?

The lore is honestly not my main concern tho.
I just personally think that it's fine to have races that are so drastically different in this way and that it adds some flavor to the setting and makes them feel different.
And I also have a soft spot for the whole '' woman only Amazonian people '' thing, so I am biased against male Viera's lol.

I am just getting Night Elf flashbacks, I was really disappointed with how Blizzard handled them.

Lore is a valid argument normally, but in case of FF14 and WoL it works... it doesn't work really.
We should be unable to play male Miqo'te (and we see them rarely among NPC and mostly sun Seekers, who are more common, Moon Keepers are 2 or 3 character in few side quests). We should be unable to play Duskwite Elezens (There is only 1 as far as I remember in Lancer 1-30 lvl story). We should be unable to play Au Ra as race at all (Ah this quest when Yugiri finally shows hew face with worrying if anybody will find her appearance odd or even bad). Actually, we should not add even female Viera in the first place because of their lore (those who leaves the forest = betrayers and can't turn back).

We should be unable to play WHM, SCH, SMN, DRK, BLM, RDM, SAM, etc, etc, etc. We need to delete 80% of playable content if we want to praise lore. But. WoL is an exception, outsider, who makes things as he wants, because Mother Crystal called to him. We are special. Players around us are just background, they are not canon. That's why lore can't be an excuse to exclude only one gender, if another one, lore-breaking as well, already implemented.

[Evergrey]

Why not?

The lore is honestly not my main concern tho.
I just personally think that it's fine to have races that are so drastically different in this way and that it adds some flavor to the setting and makes them feel different.
And I also have a soft spot for the whole '' woman only Amazonian people '' thing, so I am biased against male Viera's lol.

I am just getting Night Elf flashbacks, I was really disappointed with how Blizzard handled them.

To be honest, SE have already given in to the cries (literally) of the people.
If I'm not mistaken, I heard long ago that they didn't want to add Viera to FFXIV, as they wanted to keep the games apart to make them have their own personalities.

I do agree with you on this one however.
Lore gives a game and its world more character and we should really embrace it.
Because without lore, then what's the reason to play a story driven game?
I do know it's 2019, and everyone is a special snowflake and equality is a must. Or else someone is a racist, sexist etc etc. Even when it comes to pixels in a fantasy world where anything could be possible, because, you know, it's fantasy and not real.
So it's not impossible that one gender of a race might not be present to the story we're playing.

I do know that the Miqo'te male lore was pretty much similare to how the Viera Male lore is. Males live mostly alone and secluded while the females are more active in the ongoing world.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't they add the Miqo'te males to ARR? Meaning that originally the males were not playable aswell.
Even as far back as FF11, there was no Male Miqo'te (or female Roes). Now I didn't play that game, so no idea how the community acted around that.
(Yes, I do know the names of the races were different in that game. I just choose not to.)

I do support when game developers try to make their game feel more unique and flavour it with all kinds of lore.
But these days more and more give in to the cries (yet again, literally) of the people. Meaning that more and more, the games feel less unique and more generic.

Don't take me wrong though. I do love variety and costumizations. So good for you that you get Bunny Girls.
Personally I will go for Hrothgar. As finally we're gonna get a race that looks more fierce.
It just saddens me that the price for that more variety comes at the cost of games personality.

Like back in old WoW, where Horde had Shamans and Alliance Paladins. But due to the cries (you know the drill), they gave each factions both choises. Taking away the factions uniqueness and made it all generic.

[Kolsykol]

1. The lore is owned by the game team, they can rewrite it in whatever they want, regardless of what previous games said about Viera. This is FFXIV, not FFXII
2. Male Miqo'te were supposed to be rare as well, yet I see more furrballs running around than anything else.
3. Personal bias is never an argument. Nobody likes the "I don't like this, so nobody should have it" discussions. You don't like it, good, then dont play it but let others enjoy it

I was just expressing my opinion about it, I think that you're taking it way more seriously than I intended it.
I don't think that your number one and three points are very good arguments either tho, because you could essentially justify anything that way which goes back to what I said about sacrificing the artistic integrity of the setting that has been created and established on an altar.
Do you not see how that's a slippery slope?

And I mean just because they dun did it once doesn't mean that they necessarily should do it again or every time.
Again tho, I am expressing my opinion on it I am not trying to say that they're not allowed to or whatever or that people are wrong for wanting it.
If they had been male only then I would've wanted female ones too deep down inside.
But I'd also recognize that it'd be me putting my own selfish desires before the settings consistency which in the end of the day is something that I'd like to see being avoided.
Even if there already are inconsistencies doesn't mean that it should therefore become even less consistent. I'd prefer it if they instead held back and minimized the '' damage ''.

[Kolsykol]

While you would only be slightly disappointed if they were added, I would be extremely disappointed if male viera were not added.

A great deal of people will always be disappointed about a great deal of things.
I don't believe that should be the deciding factor as to whether or not the artistic integrity of a work of fiction is sacrificed or not.
I am sure that we could find examples of where a lot of people would be disappointed if a book wasn't written a certain way that strayed away from how it was currently being written whilst others would only be slightly disappointed if it was.
Like in Game of Thrones there's probably countless of examples of this, it doesn't mean that George R.R Martin should listen and retcon his books or change what he was intending to write just to satiate what some people want.

Don't get too emotional about this please, lol.
I sense that people are already getting heated up...
I just don't like the principle here that lore should be ignored and that we should retcon things for the satisfaction of some people.
I feel as if that's disrespectful to the work and really diminishes the integrity of it, it makes it feel less real and like a bunch of children just bumping toys into each other coming up with new super powers and rewriting the rules over and over again.
Preferably things should stay as consistent as possible imo.

And just because it happened once before I don't think necessarily justifies doing it again.

[Gwenorai]

A great deal of people will always be disappointed about a great deal of things.
I don't believe that should be the deciding factor as to whether or not the artistic integrity of a work of fiction is sacrificed or not.
I am sure that we could find examples of where a lot of people would be disappointed if a book wasn't written a certain way that strayed away from how it was currently being written whilst others would only be slightly disappointed if it was.
Like in Game of Thrones there's probably countless of examples of this, it doesn't mean that George R.R Martin should listen and retcon his books or change what he was intending to write just to satiate what some people want.

Don't get too emotional about this please, lol.
I sense that people are already getting heated up...
I just don't like the principle here that lore should be ignored and that we should retcon things for the satisfaction of some people.
I feel as if that's disrespectful to the work and really diminishes the integrity of it, it makes it feel less real and like a bunch of children just bumping toys into each other coming up with new super powers and rewriting the rules over and over again.
Preferably things should stay as consistent as possible imo.

And just because it happened once before I don't think necessarily justifies doing it again.

I understand your opinion and honestly, this would stand if they were pretty much fierce in regards to sticking to their lore. But FF14 has always been loose about their lore in the first place. There is nothing honestly stopping the males being released other than the manpower and QA. They've retconned plenty enough already and added things that are so lore breaking that it wasn't even part of them pandering. How many people called for the monster hunter event? Finally, it would be very disrespectful if matsuno was against the idea of male Viera as he is the creator. But there's plenty of posts from him where he's talking about male Viera and being rather adorable as he talks about his image of them, how they would look like, how they would act - he's already made a statement that it's not him who's saying no to male Viera. When the creator of the lore is all for it, then there's nothing being disrespected other than personal opinion and ones headcanon.

[Evergrey]

3. Personal bias is never an argument. Nobody likes the "I don't like this, so nobody should have it" discussions. You don't like it, good, then dont play it but let others enjoy it

Isn't like, everything in this thread bias, one way or the other?
As long as someone has a horse in this race (wants Viera or don't want Viera), everything anyone sais will be bias.
So if "Personal bias is never an argument", then all the "We want Male Viera" arguments are, what? A-OK for some weird reason?
Yes, it's a thread that is about the support of Male Vieras, I know that.
But saying that everyone that doesn't like it is wrong, that's just not realistic.

"You don't like it, good, then dont play it but let others enjoy it"
I fully support that, as I use that same mindset aswell.
But what if Male Viera won't be a thing? Will you be able to think;
"What I wanted didn't happen, oh well, I'll make the best out of the situation and play another race that I like"?

It's two sides of the same coin. "I want" and "I don't want".
If one can't accept one side of the coin, then the other side is just as invalid.

[Halivel]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't they add the Miqo'te males to ARR? Meaning that originally the males were not playable aswell.

You are correct. They added female Roes and Hihglanders and male Miqo'te in 2.0 because payerbase asked about this after 1.0. That's one of the reason why outrage about recent situation was so loud in the first place: because they repeat the very same thing with making big beefy men and attractive girls (I am not against of their look or anything, just say how it can look from side view if people didn't know about Viera and Ronso (since Hroths were partly inspired by them) before FF14 but did know about situation from 1.0 or had similar experience in other games).

As about lore: it is important. But as it was stated a lot of times in this and not only this thread, if we praise lore, we should delete at least half of game or even more, or make it a single-player project. However, we do use lore for the world around us for understanding it and can use this info for RolePlaying. We can explain why we don't see some races (or specific clans) among NPC or see them very rare (at least three of them for now and even more in 5.0 after fViera and mHorths release). We also can expain why there are only Conjurers among NPC and no White Mages except us and Padjali. Or why we are the only Scholar in the entire game except our Tonberry teacher. Or why we are the only BLM, or why Monks are so rare, or why our Azurre Dragoon title looks odd after you start HW story and a lot of other things. But when we will try to wear lore on whole player base it will be broken just immediately, because WoL is outside of lore by itself.

Anyway, devteam already stated that the main reason is resources, so I have no idea why lore as main reason is still running around.

[Evergrey]

I understand your opinion and honestly, this would stand if they were pretty much fierce in regards to sticking to their lore. But FF14 has always been loose about their lore in the first place. There is nothing honestly stopping the males being released other than the manpower and QA. They've retconned plenty enough already and added things that are so lore breaking that it wasn't even part of them pandering. How many people called for the monster hunter event? Finally, it would be very disrespectful if matsuno was against the idea of male Viera as he is the creator. But there's plenty of posts from him where he's talking about male Viera and being rather adorable as he talks about his image of them, how they would look like, how they would act - he's already made a statement that it's not him who's saying no to male Viera. When the creator of the lore is all for it, then there's nothing being disrespected other than personal opinion and ones headcanon.

Personally I have no doubts that Male Viera and Female Hrothgar will be added at a later date.
They said these will be the last races they add, not the last genders.

Also, after all the commotion about the gender locks, and when SE finally releases the last genders it will look like SE listens to the people.
The people will praise them for it, making SE look good as they "listened" to the people.
It's all a conspiracy to make SE look good to the public.

*tinfoil hat*

[Senn]

A great deal of people will always be disappointed about a great deal of things.
I don't believe that should be the deciding factor as to whether or not the artistic integrity of a work of fiction is sacrificed or not.

Same goes for you then. You being slightly disappointed shouldn't affect anything.
and I'm not being emotional about anything right now but ok