Male Viera as a playable character! show your support

[GenBroadaxe]

It'd be silly to think that cash is not a part of the equation here regardless of what was done and said. No one is intentionally being greedy, but above all else, what needs to be remembered is that SE is a business and revenue is demanded from each and every project decision. Yes, savage raids can be called revenue because it is content that keeps players playing and paying a sub. A business cannot survive on pure fan service, but female viera (in all its obviousness) is a smart fan service business move as is male Hrothgar (with the dying WoW playerbase). Female Viera will appeal to those who play female characters and female viera diehards. Male Hrothgar will appeal to WoW players who are looking for another MMO to devote their time to. Fantasia sales will be (one hopes) tremendous.

We can all sit here deluded by the idea that SE does nothing for the sake of money, but at the end of the day it is a business. It has employees. It requires ideas that motivate income.

Oh cash is absolutely part of the decision. It had to be part of the discussion they had when deciding on if they wanted to add just one race or two. They've said as such when they gave their explanation; they had to balance out their want to add something for the fans (viera), adding a beast race (which was something other MMO's have and FF was lacking), and deciding that their staffing levels would only allow for designing 1 male and 1 female options. They're all business decisions, including considering what would be the most enjoyable for the player base at large.

Money is always part of the discussion for business, but I think they made their decision based on the logistics of the situation and a broader look at what they wanted in the game rather then "bunny girls will move those fantasia sales! Get to it!"

[Veis_Alveare]

Money is always part of the discussion for business, but I think they made their decision based on the logistics of the situation and a broader look at what they wanted in the game rather then "bunny girls will move those fantasia sales! Get to it!"

But bunny girls will move more fantasia sales and I doubt that went entirely unsaid as SE navigated this and that's okay because they're a business.

I've been saying it for a long time now but if you start from the place SE started (adding Viera and a beast race) and then add in that you're unable to do more than 2 unique models worth of work you come to the logical conclusion that female Viera and male Hrothgar are the way to go.

Not giving female Viera is basically not an option, even if they released all the race and gender combinations female Viera would sell the most by a landslide just by looking at current game demographics. That basically makes the choice for you - okay, male of the beast race.

I feel like people are acting like there's more to it than this when there really likely isn't.

[zeylos]

But bunny girls will move more fantasia sales and I doubt that went entirely unsaid as SE navigated this and that's okay because they're a business.

I've been saying it for a long time now but if you start from the place SE started (adding Viera and a beast race) and then add in that you're unable to do more than 2 unique models worth of work you come to the logical conclusion that female Viera and male Hrothgar are the way to go.

Not giving female Viera is basically not an option, even if they released all the race and gender combinations female Viera would sell the most by a landslide just by looking at current game demographics. That basically makes the choice for you - okay, male of the beast race.

I feel like people are acting like there's more to it than this when there really likely isn't.

If they HAD to do female viera, then they should have given us male viera instead of male hrogar. If they didnt HAVE to do female viera, then they should have given us female hrotgar and male hrotgar, with a chance (the same as we have now for the missing genders) to see the other race added in the future. Also, by sells, I guess we will see how many hrotgar there will be, but Im quite positive male viera would have been much more popular

[GenBroadaxe]

If they HAD to do female viera, then they should have given us male viera instead of male hrogar. If they didnt HAVE to do female viera, then they should have given us female hrotgar and male hrotgar, with a chance (the same as we have now for the missing genders) to see the other race added in the future. Also, by sells, I guess we will see how many hrotgar there will be, but Im quite positive male viera would have been much more popular

They may have been given how popular male miqo'te are since they currently fill that "trim, athletic" look. A beast race was something that the game was missing though and there was apparently enough data to back up their decision to develop one. Not to mention that it'll give another option for a larger character other then Roegadyn. Elezen, Midlanders, Au'ra, and Miqo'te are all on the slim side. Lalafells are...lalas and Highlanders are just kinda slightly bigger/broader Midlanders so something else at the larger end seems reasonable from a visual design standpoint.

[reivaxe]

I would really like to see the math on how 2 years of development of a race can be profitable based purely on sells of a $10 item then all that time and effort could have been directed at the many other items people grab up on the Mogstation and the fact that they give potions out for free.

Hell, if you have played this game long enuff back when the potion was a vet reward any new character you make gets a free potion from start. I can (and will) make an alt right now and prep it for converting into my Raid server Hrothgar and not have to spend a dime on it to race change in ShB.

[Gwenorai]

I would really like to see the math on how 2 years of development of a race can be profitable based purely on sells of a $10 item then all that time and effort could have been directed at the many other items people grab up on the Mogstation and the fact that they give potions out for free.

Hell, if you have played this game long enuff back when the potion was a vet reward any new character you make gets a free potion from start. I can (and will) make an alt right now and prep it for converting into my Raid server Hrothgar and not have to spend a dime on it to race change in ShB.

Depends on how you look at it. You've got folks who will buy the fantasia - but you will also have folks who will end up purchasing more mog items for glamour for their characters. I don't buy some pieces of glamour from the mog station if they don't fit the character's body properly. Beyond this is folks tend to switch back and forth at a whim - that's more than just the one veteran reward. On the outside for the newcomer those who wish to play as male Viera from the start will have to purchase the full package instead of just upgrading from the base game and then starting over - either way, they're buying into the expansion.

The fact the race is actually behind a paywall already in regards to Shadow Bringers is a profit in itself. I know from experience that when I came back after leaving the game after beta - I went and purchased the latest expansion straight away as I liked the idea of the Au'ra at the time. This was the case with some other friends of mine.

Yes, they give you a free fantasia potion but that's it, just one. You also don't get the free potion if you jump skip, and the casual player is more likely to fantasia and then do it again because they slipped up in regards to voice, eye colour and skin tone.

--

Two years of development of a race? I don't believe it literally takes them two years. It takes them two years with the current workload they have and juggling everything around. And Viera females were created in a much shorter time frame. They most likely do not have a static team that works justs on armour sets all the time. They have to juggle. So let's not exaggerate and put the idea into folks heads that for two whole years everyone is feverishly working on the race with little time for nothing else. This was probably not your intention anywho, but you know how people are.

Honestly, if you took out all the juggling and what not, the team could probably push out male Viera and female Hrothgar in a month or two - probably in between. Not including quality control. Not that they should do this, but yeah...

For anyone who argues about a time frame; keep in mind that mostly the entire bulk of Mass Effect: Andromeda was created in 18 months. You can't tell me that a company that's much more equipped than an untested Bioware studio can't create models of two missing genders and fit the armour on them in a much shorter time frame. The only defence to this was that Mass Effect: Andromeda was a bit sucky at launch. ¬_¬ For a game that supposedly had 5 years development, the fact the game was mostly built in 18 months is a joke. Grumble grumble.

[Lauront]

It’s a profit seeking business in the end. Although they may err in their assessments, the goal of new features is to boost revenues. They would not add new races if they did not think they had this potential, and that can be through Fantasia, new subs, retained subs or additional mogstation spending.

No one but SE is privy to the exact figures behind it so not sure what the point of asking on here is but it’s been pointed out before how a race might add to revenues... and you’re left in the rather awkward position of saying they’re adding a feature which they don’t expect to improve the game’s profitability... just because. Some of the devs may think of motivations besides profit when devising their wish lists but adding the races comes at considerable expenditure and risk and so is not something done without regard to potential revenues. It’s not that hard to see.

[Quipsy]

I just used my ARR fantasia, so I suppose I'll have to contribute to fantasia revenue if/when the time comes. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

This game's a lot like Disney World--it seems like a magical realm where the goal is to bring you the ultimate fantasy, but it does so with the intent to get you to pay the money to enter the park and buy the various things within--fast passes, mouse-ear hats, toys, treats... they're all pretty and shiny and contribute to the "magic" but they're really just there to get $$$. The imagineers behind these things might feel some type of way about them, but that's less important than the end result--you parting with your cash money. They're not going to put something in the park for no reason, just because they like it--they're going to put it there because it's either going to make you stay longer or spend more, like those weird smell generators they have that make random areas smell like baked goods.

Stuff's cynical behind the scenes. And I continue to say a lot of the stuff Lauront says except I make it dumb orz

[WhiteArchmage]

I would really like to see the math on how 2 years of development of a race can be profitable based purely on sells of a $10 item then all that time and effort could have been directed at the many other items people grab up on the Mogstation and the fact that they give potions out for free.

Hell, if you have played this game long enuff back when the potion was a vet reward any new character you make gets a free potion from start. I can (and will) make an alt right now and prep it for converting into my Raid server Hrothgar and not have to spend a dime on it to race change in ShB.

And that's the problem right there: you're assuming that the revenue for mViera/fHrothgar will come solely from the sale of Fantasias. There's PR benefits, subs recovered, new or upgraded subs... all those small things you dismiss over being "not enough" add up. Heck, if they sell 6.0 with the ability to change into either of them I will preorder so fast my card will melt (note: I'd still think that locking the missing genders behind ANOTHER expansion would be sort of a slap in the face but would still do it).

I'll take a Fantasia over an undyable piece of glamour with clipping issues lol

For anyone who argues about a time frame; keep in mind that mostly the entire bulk of Mass Effect: Andromeda was created in 18 months. You can't tell me that a company that's much more equipped than an untested Bioware studio can't create models of two missing genders and fit the armour on them in a much shorter time frame. The only defence to this was that Mass Effect: Andromeda was a bit sucky at launch. ¬_¬ For a game that supposedly had 5 years development, the fact the game was mostly built in 18 months is a joke. Grumble grumble.

There's a huge expectation and misinformation on how much a game is actually in development. XV is joked to have been in development for "10 years", but there's about 5 to 6 years from the time of announcement to when they actively were working on it. And I'm not counting how many ideas and assets they threw away when it turned from Versus XIII into XV (axing Stella alone and creating Lunafreya...)

[Brightmore]

I would really like to see the math on how 2 years of development of a race can be profitable based purely on sells of a $10 item then all that time and effort could have been directed at the many other items people grab up on the Mogstation and the fact that they give potions out for free.

Hell, if you have played this game long enuff back when the potion was a vet reward any new character you make gets a free potion from start. I can (and will) make an alt right now and prep it for converting into my Raid server Hrothgar and not have to spend a dime on it to race change in ShB.

Not only Phials, I also happen to Always change character name with Fantasia... so, add more US$10 bucks to the cart.