Male Viera as a playable character! show your support

[WhiteArchmage]

That's what I mean - she was posting as a catgirl up until her most recent post. So the concern about mViera being used to "feed" ERP is rather rich.

And even then, I've been made to believe lalas are very popular for other ERP purposes, so point still stands. Which still makes me wonder why anyone cares about what people do in the comfort or their apartments or private houses. I believe if people engage in that behavior in public spaces like /say or /shout in Limsa it's actually reportable (honestly don't know, feel free to correct me), but that's like wanting to stop a Halloween store from opening in the nearby mall because their bunny ears may be worn somewhere other than the head.

Honestly, the only argument that makes any sense by now is wanting dev time to be used elsewhere, since apparently they're already stretched thin. And I can get behind that, you do you (er... a general you, this hasn't been directed at Lauront for a while lol), I'll just respectfully disagree, by pointing out that maybe it's time the XIV team gets a bigger budget and more people (in all spaces like designers, coders and QA), or that I wouldn't mind the patch cycle being every 4/4.5 months (it's already releasing staggered content in .51/.57 patches) since Yoshi-P himself has suggested people take breaks and play other games once in a while.

The Lore argument? Non-existant now that he said they'll be mentioned in-game. Them not being available in previous games? Irrelevant for this game. No child models? Irrelevant thanks to Yoshi's own view of M!Viera's design. Not worth the dev cost? May hold some ground if one can produce legitimate proof that interest in said gender options would be low enough, until then it's just as much speculation as we're doing here.

Ugh, sorry, promised m'self I wouldn't get too long-winded... >_>

[zeylos]

If it would take more than a year to go from greenlighting to well on track, as it was with Hrothgar, it really doesn't matter why we don't have male viera. And there's no point trying to argue. But as long as we keep showing dissatisfaction with the results, there will be impetus for them to change course. It's only a question of whether it is sufficient impetus.

I think that from what he awnsered, they clearly think that there is enough complaint and want to do them. The thing is they're trying to figure out how to do them without impacting the game too greatly. I trust on them and I hope they can figure something out so they can be released at 6.0

[Lauront]

And even then, I've been made to believe lalas are very popular for other ERP purposes, so point still stands. Which still makes me wonder why anyone cares about what people do in the comfort or their apartments or private houses. I believe if people engage in that behavior in public spaces like /say or /shout in Limsa it's actually reportable (honestly don't know, feel free to correct me), but that's like wanting to stop a Halloween store from opening in the nearby mall because their bunny ears may be worn somewhere other than the head.

Honestly, the only argument that makes any sense by now is wanting dev time to be used elsewhere, since apparently they're already stretched thin. And I can get behind that, you do you (er... a general you, this hasn't been directed at Lauront for a while lol), I'll just respectfully disagree, by pointing out that maybe it's time the XIV team gets a bigger budget and more people (in all spaces like designers, coders and QA), or that I wouldn't mind the patch cycle being every 4/4.5 months (it's already releasing staggered content in .51/.57 patches) since Yoshi-P himself has suggested people take breaks and play other games once in a while.

The Lore argument? Non-existant now that he said they'll be mentioned in-game. Them not being available in previous games? Irrelevant for this game. No child models? Irrelevant thanks to Yoshi's own view of M!Viera's design. Not worth the dev cost? May hold some ground if one can produce legitimate proof that interest in said gender options would be low enough, until then it's just as much speculation as we're doing here.

Ugh, sorry, promised m'self I wouldn't get too long-winded... >_>

No, I think it's a pretty concise rebuttal to the main rationales advanced in opposition to adding them. I especially agree with your comments on the resource issue.

[zeylos]

And even then, I've been made to believe lalas are very popular for other ERP purposes, so point still stands. Which still makes me wonder why anyone cares about what people do in the comfort or their apartments or private houses. I believe if people engage in that behavior in public spaces like /say or /shout in Limsa it's actually reportable (honestly don't know, feel free to correct me), but that's like wanting to stop a Halloween store from opening in the nearby mall because their bunny ears may be worn somewhere other than the head.

Honestly, the only argument that makes any sense by now is wanting dev time to be used elsewhere, since apparently they're already stretched thin. And I can get behind that, you do you (er... a general you, this hasn't been directed at Lauront for a while lol), I'll just respectfully disagree, by pointing out that maybe it's time the XIV team gets a bigger budget and more people (in all spaces like designers, coders and QA), or that I wouldn't mind the patch cycle being every 4/4.5 months (it's already releasing staggered content in .51/.57 patches) since Yoshi-P himself has suggested people take breaks and play other games once in a while.

The Lore argument? Non-existant now that he said they'll be mentioned in-game. Them not being available in previous games? Irrelevant for this game. No child models? Irrelevant thanks to Yoshi's own view of M!Viera's design. Not worth the dev cost? May hold some ground if one can produce legitimate proof that interest in said gender options would be low enough, until then it's just as much speculation as we're doing here.

Ugh, sorry, promised m'self I wouldn't get too long-winded... >_>

I think fortnite is a great example for devs on patch cycles. Even though they have like, 50 times the budget XIV has, they release small updates every week, and every 2 months a significantly bigger one. For FFXIV, this could be translated to a small update every month, and every 4-5 months a much bigger update.
By small update, I mean about 1/3 or 1/4 of current patches, and the bigger patches to be 1/2 of the current ones

[Gwenorai]

To be honest, 6.0 would be a good way to introduce them as we will be going back to our original shard fighting the Empire. I am rather interested in what flavour text they'll have regarding why the males Viera and female Hrothgar are hidden. The only thing I can imagine is that they are being protected and kept hidden. This makes sense since they'll be adding flavour text for shadow bringers and onwards for these two races. Seeing as both male Viera and female Hrothgar are extremely rare and being introduced in an expansion where we are going to a completely different world/shard- where the entire world/shard is being snuffed out and only a pocket of the landmass is 'safe'. Of course, this is just 'lore' and 'story-telling' rather than the whole resource/developer time.



But at the same time, ew 6.0 is so far away - but if it makes sense and gives them the time they need, then... yeah.

[zeylos]

To be honest, 6.0 would be a good way to introduce them as we will be going back to our original shard fighting the Empire. I am rather interested in what flavour text they'll have regarding why the males Viera and female Hrothgar are hidden. The only thing I can imagine is that they are being protected and kept hidden. This makes sense since they'll be adding flavour text for shadow bringers and onwards for these two races. Seeing as both male Viera and female Hrothgar are extremely rare and being introduced in an expansion where we are going to a completely different world/shard- where the entire world/shard is being snuffed out and only a pocket of the landmass is 'safe'. Of course, this is just 'lore' and 'story-telling' rather than the whole resource/developer time.



But at the same time, ew 6.0 is so far away - but if it makes sense and gives them the time they need, then... yeah.

I also didn't want to wait until 6.0, but realistically it's when they'll most likely come here. I also don't mind waiting since I can have fun with my FC and DNC is in already, but the thing is that even if I reealy wish they were here in 5.1-5.3, that isnt likely to happen, and if theyre gonna be here in 2 years, it'll take 2 years regardless of how I feel, so I'll feel good anyways

[Alleo]

I am...slightly disappointed again?

My take on what Yoshi was saying was "We have no plans of doing this, but that doesnt mean it wont happen in the far flung future."

Considering the limitations theyre referencing, the likely hood of it happening appears to be nil unless they outsource (which they likely wont due to costs/security). I know its a debbie downer position, but if they were serious about addressing the off sexes, they would say something more akin to "We are looking at avenues t oaddress that in the future." All we get currently is "Hey, maybe youll see them in an NPC capacity someday." This doesnt strike me as theyll add it.

It honestly sounded more like a "well we dont plan to" which might only change if enough people stay on this for a long time. (Kinda like the bunny costume) Maybe I am alone on this but if we dont ever get them, then I hope that we will also never see them as NPCs..that would just make it even worse.

In the end I am still just baffled by their decision to make two different half races instead of just one complete race. And later on if time/budget and other stuff is looking better and they suddenly do introduce another new race then people would be happy about that. Now at least as someone that wanted to have a beastial race but that plays their rl gender, it just leaves a bitter taste in my mouth...another example in the game where the chosen females are beautiful waifus while the males get to play the beastial ones.

Exactly!

I feel the devs spread themselves far to thinly in an attempt to make FF14 be a game that appeals to everybody and appeases all demographics equally....This in theory is commendable. But in reality just means the game never really excels in any area, becoming a jack of all trades, master of none.

If that's the case why have the Viera lost most of their racial traits apart from the ears?! Same for the Hrothgar (Ronso) who have lost most of their beastial traits and reduced to nothing more than a Roe with a cat face....sure marketing and PR can carry the dead weight...but them basic cookie cutter body models do not lie....parts of Yoshi's statement however are questionable....

However I must stress I DO NOT think the devs are lazy by any means....they work incredibly hard!

However I personally feel they are making life harder for themselves by insisting on sticking to this patch release schedule.....a patch every 3 months is just unrealistic and seldom seen as a common thing for other games for good reason!

I fully agree with your post. I dont think its good to try to want so many different people to play this game, especially since all of these need content to stay. Its why I dont understand why they are trying to make the PVP into something like e-sports..this is just simply not the game for it.

I am fine with them trying out new stuff to see what works, but then the question remains on why they do it that deeply? Why for example try out Eureka with four new islands? Why not try it with one or two? Already start it with the new systems and really look at the feedback. (And why are you already planning for more Eureka in the next expansion if the opinion about it is so heavly split?) Also sometimes it really starts to feel like they dont know how to create something very different from Diadem or something which is enjoyable on its own without needing relic weapons and other rewards to even motivate people to stick with it for a bit.

I also dont think that they are lazy (as in not working or something) but I do get the feeling that they might need more people with new ideas or a fresh creative view on it. Maybe with something that takes some time to finish (without it being a near impossible boring grind like some of the achievements..). If you have something that takes longer to complete and is fun for the majority you also wont need new content every three months..or at least you could just introduce these patches with story only and some small glamour updates.

And I also agree with your view on the new races. If they are the last one and should add variety why not go further out? Give Vieras more rabbit traits like their feets and a tail. And if that means that we cant wear headpieces..well I am quite sure that a lot of people would be fine with that.

[niteypants]

After reading Yoship's letter, it's clear to me that we have a greater-than-zero chance of seeing Male Viera, which is sorta OK news, but we have to strongly temper that with the idea that they are probably still resistant to doing it for the following reason: they are keeping to a rigid 3.5 month update schedule and they don't see a realistic way of expanding beyond fourteen models. That's very bad news, because that means there are reasons beyond Yoship's control, reasons beyond money and manpower even, that account for us not seeing Male Viera.

But that doesn't mean we can't keep letting them know they've made a mistake. It was their bad decision to use the last 2 slots implementing 2 incomplete races instead of a complete Viera. It was a bad decision that is probably going to lose them a decent amount of money. Right now is still the best time for them to decide to implement both genders -- the longer they wait, the worse the wearable bloat becomes. Even if they commit to planning now, it will save a lot of heartache when development begins.

Things that are outside of Yoship's control are still very well within the powers of his bosses. The problems that they are facing aren't insurmountable. Just as a for instance, if 14 slots = 3.5 months of development time, I would very happily wait 4 months between updates so that both male Viera and female Hrothgar could be added. If they're worried about posting good numbers every quarter (a ridiculous yardstick in modern gaming, if true), they can still make big mogstation releases that don't have as high an impact on individual models (mounts for instance sell very well even when they clipping issues) while lengthening the development cycle.

So keep the pressure on.

[Senn]

if 14 slots = 3.5 months of development time, I would very happily wait 4 months between updates so that both male Viera and female Hrothgar could be added.

Same. I don't mind a temporary dip in updates and patches so we can get male viera and female hrothgar added. It would be worth it to me in the long run.

Keep up the support, guys. We're in it for the long haul. Also, if you guys would be ok with patches/updates coming out slower in order for the dev team to implement male viera and female hrothgar into the game, post that here. Let SE know that content coming out slower would not bother you if that meant male viera and female hrothgar get added to the game. This dip in content would only be temporary. It would probably go back to its regular pace once male viera and female hrothgar were added.

[Theodric]

Perhaps the original post should be updated now that it has been confirmed that childlike Viera will not be added to the game as a playable option? I imagine it will be helpful for latecomers to the thread.