Male Viera as a playable character! show your support

[SomeRandomHuman]

This is all just talk until they add male viera and modify the lore (which is unlikely to happen in the foreseeable future due to other things going on completely unrelated to lore), but I feel like you can’t properly compare male viera to male miqo’te.

There is a difference between one thing being rare on the continent the majority of the game’s adventures take place on, and another being rare on a continent on the other side of the world. On top of that, viera have an incredibly restrictive culture and so far in the history of the world, only the women have ever been known to leave it. The adult male viera population is even smaller than the number born as well, since they go through a grueling training regimen that not all survive.

Male miqo’te adventurers meanwhile make perfect sense according to the lore. There are already male miqo’te adventurer NPCs scattered about for one, and their whole background and lore fits the lifestyle of a wanderer. If you take into account the PCs on screen being other adventurers, you could easily say that the mismatch between their percentage of Eorzea’s population compared to the percentage of adventurers who are miqo’te is due to the fact that wandering fits them more than any other race.

All of this can be changed easy with lore though, but you still can’t compare the two at this current moment in time. Male viera suddenly being adventurers can make sense in the context of war refugees (like au ra, viera, and hrothgar). But right now, they’re isolated tribesmen on a different continent many malms away until Yoshi-P, Banri Oda, and Koji Fox decide otherwise.

Except that we're heading to that side of the world this x-pac.

Also the difference between Male viera and miqo'te ends at their continent of origin. Male Viera are hermit-style hunters akin to their miqo'te counterpart.

Also Miqo'te aren't from the continent of the adventure ether. Their origins stem from Mericydia. A place we've never set foot on in any capacity. Doma is at least on the same continent as the greatwood on the source.

[MikkoAkure]

Except that we're heading to that side of the world this x-pac.

Also the difference between Male viera and miqo'te ends at their continent of origin. Male Viera are hermit-style hunters akin to their miqo'te counterpart.

Also Miqo'te aren't from the continent of the adventure ether. Their origins stem from Mericydia. A place we've never set foot on in any capacity. Doma is at least on the same continent as the greatwood on the source.

Miqo’te may have origins in Meracydia but that doesn’t change the fact that they’ve been in Eorzea for many thousands of years and are also spread out across the world in Ilsabard and even some in Dalmasca. Viera up until the past 3 decades were isolated in the Skatay Range, the Golmore Jungle, and Dalmascan cities. Additionally, between the Golmore Jungle and Doma are the Burn and the jungles of Nagxia, both of which are extremely hostile places that don’t exactly scream “easy travel”.

Male miqo’te are everywhere in Eorzea and they’re not exactly hiding. There are even a few male moon miqo NPCs running around. Saying that it doesn't make sense for male miqo'te to be adventurers or to be everywhere is being blind to all the male miqo'te NPCs that exist in the game who aren't hermits or tribal nunh/tia. Male viera are “kill first, ask questions later” on the other side of the planet and have never been seen by a non-viera before. You can’t really compare the two.

I’m not saying male viera can’t happen. The lore is being used as an excuse for why they’re not here now and that can be changed. What I’m saying is that using the male miqo’te comparison doesn’t make any sense.

[WhiteArchmage]

I’m not saying male viera can’t happen. The lore is being used as an excuse for why they’re not here now and that can be changed. What I’m saying is that using the male miqo’te comparison doesn’t make any sense.

It does because it's specifically Moonkeeper Lore. Not Sunseeker. Sunseekers males are rare, but their wanderlust nature means they have a better chance of being adventurers. Meanwhile, Moonkeepers are solitary, and only leave their family units to mate... sounds familiar? This is why we've had several Sunseeker NPCs (protip: If their names have Nuhn/Tia, they're a Sunseeker), but only 4 or 5 Moonkeepers, and one of those is locked behind Allied Beast Tribe quests, a second is a blink-and-miss-it nameless NPC in WP HM (and gay, apropos of nothing). The fact that they're not "from Eorzea" is also not really an argument because the Au Ra aren't, either, and yet we're expected to act like they've always been there when they're introduced in 3.0 (2.1 with Yugiri, but not revealed until 2.55). None of the expansion races are from Eorzea, and Hrothgar have the worst lore excuse for being gender-locked, as their women are constantly refered to as existing somewhere off-screen (really, Hroth just got the worst of everything except SOME hats work on them).

As an aside to the whole Matsuno thing... I'm sad to say the chances of a new Matsuno-helmed Ivalice game are actually pretty low. He left SE years ago and was freelancing before founding his own company (Algebra Factory); his involvement in XIV is as a guest writer due to Yoshi-P's insistence, which means he was basically hired FOR XIV ONLY. And since SE holds the rights to everything Ivalice-related, it's unlikely he'd make a new one elsewhere. The closest we'd get to a Male Viera revealed in an Ivalice game would ACTUALLY be XIV, if we happen to go back to Hydaelin's Ivalice and see a male there. Otherwise we'd need the planets to align for SE to decide to make an Ivalice game, and be in friendly enough terms with Matsuno to get him to sign on.

[MikkoAkure]

It does because it's specifically Moonkeeper Lore. Not Sunseeker. Sunseekers males are rare, but their wanderlust nature means they have a better chance of being adventurers. Meanwhile, Moonkeepers are solitary, and only leave their family units to mate... sounds familiar? This is why we've had several Sunseeker NPCs (protip: If their names have Nuhn/Tia, they're a Sunseeker), but only 4 or 5 Moonkeepers, and one of those is locked behind Allied Beast Tribe quests, a second is a blink-and-miss-it nameless NPC in WP HM (and gay, apropos of nothing). The fact that they're not "from Eorzea" is also not really an argument because the Au Ra aren't, either, and yet we're expected to act like they've always been there when they're introduced in 3.0 (2.1 with Yugiri, but not revealed until 2.55). None of the expansion races are from Eorzea, and Hrothgar have the worst lore excuse for being gender-locked, as their women are constantly refered to as existing somewhere off-screen (really, Hroth just got the worst of everything except SOME hats work on them).

One of the major characters in the BLM storyline is a male moonkeeper miqo who is a conjurer in Gridania. So much for the established lore on that.

[zeylos]

I dont understand why the lore is still being used as an argument when even the devs already confrimed that it isnt the lore stopping them at all, and that if they can add it and it's worth it they will, regardless of lore.

[MikkoAkure]

What gets me is people who come out swinging with stuff like "lore can never be a reason to not implement something" thats not my argument. I have never argued that something "cant" happen for X reason; on this subject. Male Viera can happen if the devs make it happen.

I’m not saying male viera can’t happen. The lore is being used as an excuse for why they’re not here now and that can be changed. What I’m saying is that using the male miqo’te comparison doesn’t make any sense.

I dont understand why the lore is still being used as an argument when even the devs already confrimed that it isnt the lore stopping them at all, and that if they can add it and it's worth it they will, regardless of lore.

No one said that the lore isn't what's stopping the devs from implementing.

[WhiteArchmage]

One of the major characters in the BLM storyline is a male moonkeeper miqo who is a conjurer in Gridania. So much for the established lore on that.

Yeah, that's why I find the lore argument to be self-defeating; besides the WoL-exception, we find characters who break it all the time. (Krile, for example, doesn't follow Lalafellin naming conventions, except in her JP name Kururu, with the justification that she's adopted, and the Viera we see are outcasts by definition, either by being born outside the Wood, or leaving it in the first place.)

[Zanarkand-Ronso]

Miqo‘te in general are the less seen race in lore - but just making a visit in limsa shows us there are tons and tons of adventurers, which again is kind of lore breaking.

„Comparatively few in number, Miqo'te maintain an insular mentality within their clans, tending to avoid contact with the other races. Many lead isolated lifestyles, even when living in the more populous cities.“

https://finalfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Miqo%27te

The Males are even scarcer, this is from a dev post on the official forums:

Though there are ten suffixes listed above, rarely do even the largest Keeper of the Moon families have more than two or three sons. This is not by choice. Nature merely sees to it that more females are born to this race.

https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...ng-Conventions

I‘ll update the info, but think i‘ve read somewhere that in 8 females, 1 male is born? but i‘ll update the post as soon as im home and have time to do the research.

""The Seekers are diasporized across Eorzea; a few can be found in nearly every region, bar Coerthas. Limsa Lominsa boasts a substantial Seeker population, as they are drawn to La Noscea's warm-temperate climate and abundant sunlight. Many of the Seekers who have settled in Limsa have adopted most of its social mores, and do not follow the "traditional" clan hierarchy closely, if at all.

The other notable population of Seekers is in Thanalan's Sagolii Desert. While there are, of course, Seekers in Ul'dah (including the infamous Ul'dahn "dancing girls"), a number of Seeker tribes inhabit the southern parts of Thanalan, extending into the Sagolii. These tribes, in contrast to their urbanized cousins, tend to be stridently traditional, maintaining the social structure the Seekers have lived under for millennia and with an economy focused on hunting. The most famous tribe among adventurers is the "U", or Drake, tribe whose home, Forgotten Springs, is a good stop-over point for anyone venturing out into the desert, and the village sees a good deal of traffic (to mixed feelings from the U).

Keepers are generally found in the Black Shroud. They are divided between those who have made peace with the Gridanians and integrated into their culture (and can be found making up a not-insubstantial portion of groups like the Wood Wailers), and the other clans who still resist Gridanian "domination" and have carved out their own small domains in the forest, like the Coeurlclaws. The latter tend to engage in banditry to aid their survival, forcing them into further conflict with Gridanians, who worry their behavior will incite the wrath of the Twelveswood's elementals. ""

This is actually pretty accurate, so where is the Break in Lore? And why is this a defense against Viera Lore?
Also if you read more of the lore instead of the snippets you used, its not saying that there are so few Male Miqote that they practically dont exist. Just that they are outnumbered by Female Miqote. Which is accurate, both in game, and in lore.

[Zanarkand-Ronso]

I dont understand why the lore is still being used as an argument when even the devs already confirmed that it isnt the lore stopping them at all, and that if they can add it and it's worth it they will, regardless of lore.

I also fail to understand where this idea that "Lore is stopping them" is remotely part of the argument.

[KizuyaKatogami]

SE bends lore all the time, they literally do it to suit whatever writing they want. We’ve seen it with MSQ multiple times and they’ll most likely do it whenever Male Viera are implemented. You can argue all the lore reasons whether it’s male moons or Whm whatever is the same because in the end it will be bent by SE to suit their needs.