Male Viera as a playable character! show your support

[Zanarkand-Ronso]

They worked in FFXII cause world building allowed for it. The overall context of things and how they fit into that. They stuck out here because they do not fit within the overall context and lore of FFXIV.

My consistency issue is why do they not change culturally between the source and the first, when every other race does. Every other race has a different background, culture, lore, etc between the first and the source. There is no Allag Empire on the first. There was no Uldah. There was no Gridania. The history of what happens on the first is different than that of the source, and as a result the cultures are vastly different between the people of the first and source.

Lol, I mean...duh. They were created in the Ivalice world. So they had to shape the story to allow it to exist with the Viera even vaguely in mind, because remember, they existed before XII happened. We had Tactics before XII.
Ok so, Im not gonna address everything else you typed above this point, because your last Paragraph is Illuminating how Ive been viewing this conversation.

If you want to say we dont see male viera on the source cause Ivalice, Ok. But then how come we dont see them on the first? There was no Ivalice there. You could say theyre hiding, but that doesnt work as Fanow is the most fortified location from Sin Eaters in RakTika. That would be where you would hide the remaining few if that was the goal. And btw, were now past the Sin Eater threat broadly, so why are they still absent?

We can find common ground here and agree that its weird that they didnt change on the 1st. I just think its because they were still using Viera, and not some new subspecies under a different name. Such as the Elezan to Elves, or the Lalafell to Dwarves.
The Males could still easily be hiding. There is a chance we haven't seen the whole forest, we don't see the wall of light surrounding the Forest at all, so there is probly more woods out there. Or they are just really illusive. Even with the Sin Eaters gone that doesn't stop their duties as Protectors; who apparently take it more seriously then the Females.

"FFXII Lore" doesnt cut it here. It doesnt fit within FFXIV.

Im starting to realize I didnt fully factor in the 1st here, because you keep broadly saying FFXIV.
Narrow it down to Shadowbringers/the 1st instead of using XIV as a whole, we could have avoided alot of this mindless back and forth. (Even if there is a chance I got tunnel vision in some of what I read)

[Zanarkand-Ronso]

Alright if they stay consistent to the established Ivalice Lore then what is the validity of the 'Lore' keeping Viera males forever in the forest.

Why has no Male ever tried to leave the forest.
Why from birth to death has not a single Male has ever deviated from this at all?
Not in the entire time since the sundering?
Why do they not have the freewill to choose?
Who or what is taking their freewill away?
Isn't it bad to take someone's free will away?
Are male Viera okay? Do they need rescue?


Every member of a populace conforming exactly to the culture is more unbelievable then They never leave cus reasons!

We are the WoL we are the exception to every rule, breaking the limits of whats possible, etc.

FF has always been remixing, recycling and reimagining. Why are Viera the one immutable exception to this. Even 14remixed the original FF11 races.

I was gonna ignore this because I was talking to somebody else...but alright.

--They simply haven't. Apparently they take their duty more seriously then the Females. Why? Ask the Creators, not me.
--Why should they? Just because the Females do it doesn't just mean the males will
--I dunno man. But its consistent they they just haven't
--Who said they dont have freewill? Maybe they decided this themselves.
--What freewill is being taken away? Where is it established they don't even have free will?
--Again, what free will is being taken?
--This is silly and not even a point

Thats an opinion you are having. Just because times change and people and other cultures change, doesn't mean everyone and every culture will change with them.
Being the Warrior of light doesn't change the Viera culture, unless there is suddenly a subplot that a Viera WoL changed the minds of the whole culture. Which hasn't been done...yet.
The XI races are different from the XIV Races. Otherwise they literally should have just made it FFXI-2 and just made a continuing story in the same world of Vana'diel instead of Eorzea.

[Shadowlion]

Yess i would love to play male bun +1 to Male vera

[Kazran]

...The XI races are different from the XIV Races. Otherwise they literally should have just made it FFXI-2 and just made a continuing story in the same world of Vana'diel instead of Eorzea.

Yes the FF11 races are different from the FF14 races, because the team took them and remixed them, just as they took The Ivalice stuff and remixed it for 14 as well. We havent gotten to really see the rest of the modern Dalmascan environs in southern Othard especially with/after the Garlean invasion, occupation and destruction messing all their biz up.

As for my point on the WoL being the exception was as a customizable player character. The culture of our race has no effect on us as the WoL beyond maybe our name, otherwise its very trivial.

I know some will mention then what about the other Male Viera we see running around, the presence of these other "adventurers" is only vaguely cannon.

Again why in all of time and space across all the shards, from the sundering till now has not a single solitary, male viera ever once deviated from their societal norm. Saying to ask the Creators isnt help, especially when a question like this is more of an exercise of speculation then concrete answers. Female Viera are not homogeneous in their portrayal as individuals and as being the only example of their race we have had access to, we can only extrapolate upon them and the small bits of Lore we get of the males.

I brought up their freewill because of this notion of total and utter conformity, across all time, for males, because we see for Females that they do break away from tradition, if the Females of their race can do so what is preventing every male ever in all of time from not doing so? Are they a hive mind? Are the mindless beasts with no will beyond what ever nature drives them? (A men are beasts, woman are breasts senario) Is someone or something stoping them, all of them, ever, in all of time? This is why I brought up their freewill, even is super homogeneous cultures you will have outliers, individuals who deviate.

Replying with "ask the Creators" is not a valid answer to this speculative question, nor is it a realisticly viable one, with myself being a faceless internet person who can not speak nor write Japanese and do not have easy acsess to the Creators themselves besides trying to stand out in a veritable ocean of questions and comment theymay receive tbrough their social media and other channels of public communication. They haven't given us the answers and so we must use death of the author in this situation.

The lore is blank here in both FFXIV and The Ivalice titles, and thus IS mutable, still able to be written and eventually remixed and reimagined in future FF titles.

[Zanarkand-Ronso]

Yes the FF11 races are different from the FF14 races, because the team took them and remixed them

Joke aside...

---As for my point on the WoL being the exception was as a customizable player character. The culture of our race has no effect on us as the WoL beyond maybe our name, otherwise its very trivial.

---I know some will mention then what about the other Male Viera we see running around, the presence of these other "adventurers" is only vaguely cannon.
--Again why in all of time and space across all the shards, from the sundering till now has not a single solitary, male viera ever once deviated from their societal norm. Saying to ask the Creators isnt help, especially when a question like this is more of an exercise of speculation then concrete answers. Female Viera are not homogeneous in their portrayal as individuals and as being the only example of their race we have had access to, we can only extrapolate upon them and the small bits of Lore we get of the males.

---I brought up their freewill because of this notion of total and utter conformity, across all time, for males, because we see for Females that they do break away from tradition, if the Females of their race can do so what is preventing every male ever in all of time from not doing so? Are they a hive mind? Are the mindless beasts with no will beyond what ever nature drives them? (A men are beasts, woman are breasts senario) Is someone or something stoping them, all of them, ever, in all of time? This is why I brought up their freewill, even is super homogeneous cultures you will have outliers, individuals who deviate.

---Replying with "ask the Creators" is not a valid answer to this speculative question.

---The lore is blank here in both FFXIV and The Ivalice titles, and thus IS mutable, still able to be written and remixed and reimagined in future FF titles.

--Kay.

--That vague cannon is that they exist as Adventurers in the open world so..they are there, even if they are player characters that in their game POV is a WoL while everyone else is an adventurer, they are still there. So wither its an NPC or another character, that 2nd, 3rd, 500th, #10,000 Male Viera is still there.

--You want me to answer a question nobody can answer other then the Creator. If you arn't expecting an answer because you know nobody can...then why ask?
Nobody can answer this. All you can do is Speculate. And it will be false, until the creators say otherwise.

--What if they so strongly love and believe in their culture? Why is that so wrong, why does there need to be an outlier in everything? Why can't the Males care more about the Word of the Woods more then the Females?
Devotion and faith to something isn't wrong. Why its so important to the males while the Females don't strictly follow this? IDK, they live in different sections away from eachother, maybe there is some Freewill bs going on, maybe they are just raised differently. Nobody will know, until something is said by the Creator.

--Yes it is. Because nobody can answer that question but the creator.
Are you actually looking for an answer here, or what? What is the point of your question?

--Nothing has been "Remixed" Unless Im taking that phrase/word to literal.

[Destati]

--What if they so strongly love and believe in their culture? Why is that so wrong, why does there need to be an outlier in everything? Why can't the Males care more about the Word of the Woods more then the Females?
Devotion and faith to something isn't wrong. Why its so important to the males while the Females don't strictly follow this? IDK, they live in different sections away from eachother, maybe there is some Freewill bs going on, maybe they are just raised differently. Nobody will know, until something is said by the Creator.

My Viera character, whom I'm desperately wishing to Fantasia into his intended gender someday, has long since abandoned the forest and the Green Word and is now an adventurer. Why? Because I personally do not agree with the notion that all male Viera stay in the forest if the females take little issue in journeying out themselves. And that's the thing. There may not be a need for an outlier for everything, but it is an inevitability.
Even the Gnath, a literal hivemind, has its outliers. The Vath.
There can be those who are absolutely devoted to the laws of their culture, but to expect everyone to adhere to it without question is, most respectfully, absolutely ludicrous.

--Nothing has been "Remixed" Unless Im taking that phrase/word to literal.

Don't mind me, I'm just going to Reverse Uno card this back onto you...


Jokes aside... that's quite literally what the FXI races and Ivalice have been for FFXIV. Remixed. Hellsguard Roegadyn come with ash on their noses that give them a bearlike look reminiscent of the Galka, as do Lalafell with the Tarutaru with the option to give them brownish noses too. Miqo'te are Mithra, right down to the females only being playable (which obviously has since been changed), and so on. The races are just about the same, with slight differences to take them distinct and mix them up a bit.

[Kazran]

Joke aside...




--Kay.

--That vague cannon is that they exist as Adventurers in the open world so..they are there, even if they are player characters that in their game POV is a WoL while everyone else is an adventurer, they are still there. So wither its an NPC or another character, that 2nd, 3rd, 500th, #10,000 Male Viera is still there.

--You want me to answer a question nobody can answer other then the Creator. If you arn't expecting an answer because you know nobody can...then why ask?
Nobody can answer this. All you can do is Speculate. And it will be false, until the creators say otherwise.

--What if they so strongly love and believe in their culture? Why is that so wrong, why does there need to be an outlier in everything? Why can't the Males care more about the Word of the Woods more then the Females?
Devotion and faith to something isn't wrong. Why its so important to the males while the Females don't strictly follow this? IDK, they live in different sections away from eachother, maybe there is some Freewill bs going on, maybe they are just raised differently. Nobody will know, until something is said by the Creator.

--Yes it is. Because nobody can answer that question but the creator.
Are you actually looking for an answer here, or what? What is the point of your question?

--Nothing has been "Remixed" Unless Im taking that phrase/word to literal.

Yes no one will know till the lore is filled in and so the lore is a weak reason to use for the exclusion of Male Viera as a playable race. That is my ultimate point.

The questions of speculation were ment to imagine possible lore reasons behind the inclusion or exclusion of Male Viera based upon what we knoe about FFXIV viera and the wider world of 14 as a whole. Cus I like lore speculation its fun to think and imagine of what could be possible with what we know and what we don't know.

Though i think thats were our fundamental disagreement lies. I view the world of Hydaelyn Viera as being separate from The world of Ivalice Viera, and subject to different interpretations and lore.

I will still press though that its unrealistic to think everyone of a single group thinks and acts alike. It would be like saying all Japanese people think and act the same, and all American people think and act the same, no differences ever! Its simplistic and naive to assume that.

As for my use of the word 'remix' i would say you took it more literally then the way I was useing it. To take something preexisting and add, subtract, changes pieces of it, etc.

[Zanarkand-Ronso]

My Viera character, whom I'm desperately wishing to Fantasia into his intended gender someday, has long since abandoned the forest and the Green Word and is now an adventurer. Why? Because I personally do not agree with the notion that all male Viera stay in the forest if the females take little issue in journeying out themselves. And that's the thing. There may not be a need for an outlier for everything, but it is an inevitability.
Even the Gnath, a literal hivemind, has its outliers. The Vath.
There can be those who are absolutely devoted to the laws of their culture, but to expect everyone to adhere to it without question is, most respectfully, absolutely ludicrous.



Don't mind me, I'm just going to Reverse Uno card this back onto you...


Jokes aside... that's quite literally what the FXI races and Ivalice have been for FFXIV. Remixed. Hellsguard Roegadyn come with ash on their noses that give them a bearlike look reminiscent of the Galka, as do Lalafell with the Tarutaru with the option to give them brownish noses too. Miqo'te are Mithra, right down to the females only being playable (which obviously has since been changed), and so on. The races are just about the same, with slight differences to take them distinct and mix them up a bit.

....yknow what? I actually enjoyed that little Uno Reverse card.
+10 points to Gryffindor
And cute personal Headcanon.

[Zanarkand-Ronso]

Yes no one will know till the lore is filled in and so the lore is a weak reason to use for the exclusion of Male Viera as a playable race. That is my ultimate point.

The questions of speculation were ment to imagine possible lore reasons behind the inclusion or exclusion of Male Viera based upon what we knoe about FFXIV viera and the wider world of 14 as a whole. Cus I like lore speculation its fun to think and imagine of what could be possible with what we know and what we don't know.

Though i think thats were our fundamental disagreement lies. I view the world of Hydaelyn Viera as being separate from The world of Ivalice Viera, and subject to different interpretations and lore.

I will still press though that its unrealistic to think everyone of a single group thinks and acts alike. It would be like saying all Japanese people think and act the same, and all American people think and act the same, no differences ever! Its simplistic and naive to assume that.

As for my use of the word 'remix' i would say you took it more literally then the way I was useing it. To take something preexisting and add, subtract, changes pieces of it, etc.

--I just got out of this conversation with someone else. Even they say 'If no Male Viera because of FFXII" then its fine. The issue that me and that person agree on is it doesnt work on the 1st. S
--So the point of the question was to consider reasons for no Male Viera. Which Im sure is a fruitless discussion because its always gonna come back to basically: I don't believe there wasn't at least one outlier. f the the females can why can't the males. Which we as a playerbase & fanbase will never be able to answer.
--This would work, if they just wern't Viera. Or at least a different subspeices. Heck, maybe if Ivalice itself wasn't apart of XIV.
--Thats a weird comparison for a fictional race.....But Your free to think that. Sometimes people operate that way. The American Political system is a great example.
--Then I understood you just fine. But that turned into: IMO, a funny reply from someone else

[Burmecia]

I agree with the remix guy. + Arguing about word and it's etymology-or-whatever, 'remix', when it probably describes the development of ffxiv races pretty well to good number of people seems like diversion from the real conversation.

why does there need to be an outlier in everything?

Because there simply likely is? We all have secrets, hopes and wishes you know, even skeletons in our closets, even the most conformist of us. Now that I think of it, I always found this minority notion about male vieras and only male vieras having to stay nearly hivemind-esque same values, same sense of meaning and purpose having bunch little creepy. No race works like that in ffxiv, so why this one race/sex combination should?

EDIT + Mad respect for guy who bought up Gnat/Vath.