Male Viera as a playable character! show your support

[WhiteArchmage]

Because, and I need you to understand this: Yoshi-P. Is a huge. Matsuno. Fanboy. This was literally already answered when they announced Return to Ivalice: This is NOT the same Ivalice as the games. This is an Ivalice-shaped piece of content welded into the world of FFXIV by Matsuno.

They're not using the same everything. I've already mentioned just A FEW of the differences between Ivalician Viera and XIV Viera. They're not even using the same names! Fran is the only Viera with the same name from XII, and if you notice her model, it's different from the other Viera because it's her model from XII:TZA put into XIV (it's the ears, you can tell).

It's a fanservice reference in a game built of fanservice references, how is that so hard to understand?

[Zanarkand-Ronso]

By your logic, Hrothgar would not be a new unique race too... as it is tied to the Ronsos.

The only thing Hrothgar have related to Ronsos is that they are called that on the 1st, and one customization option that features a Unicorn Horn.
Otherwise they have nothing to do with Ronso, they are not from the Snow Mountains. Ronso dont live under a Queen, they live by the word of an Elder. And Ronso Males are born with Horns.

2 completely different things.

It's a fanservice reference in a game built of fanservice references, how is that so hard to understand?

The only thing hard to understand here, is why is it so bad to expand on Viera lore to include the males coming out of hiding? And just not be lazy about it?

Male viera have next to no lore in any of the Ivalice games. There is no lore to break in regards to them other than “they are reclusive and skilled warriors”. Still, given that they worked with Matsuno for the Ivalice raids, it stands to reason that they would consult him in their creation of male viera as well. I can’t see why they wouldn’t, and Matsuno was quick to shut down the rumor that he didn’t want them in the game when asked about it on Twitter.

Male Viera are still Viera. And their exclusion from their own games is something worth exploring. If there is no reason to it, then why was it a thing, why have we never seen a Male Viera? The tiny bits of things we know about them has to have a reason behind it, or at the very least it would be fun to explore. So with what we dont know, it would be great TO know something.
For it to be glossed over like it never happened and here are Male Viera suddenly....its just lazy

[WhiteArchmage]

The only thing hard to understand here, is why is it so bad to expand on Viera lore to include the males coming out of hiding? And just not be lazy about it?

I never said it was bad. I said it's not needed because the same Lore that lets the Females break free from their societal expectations and flee the Wood would let a Male do that. I've even said it's likely that a Viera NPC we meet will have a snippet about how and/or why he left the Wood (and there could be DOZENS of explanations, from being born from a Woman that fled the Wood and as such was recruited by a Warden, to, simply, "tradition is peer pressure from dead people" and peacing out in search of Adventure... as the PC is already hinted to be), but it's not needed for PCs for the mountain of reasons I've laid out across 1369 pages.

If it helps you consider this Fran to NOT be XII Fran:

In practice, however, one will rarely encounter a Viera using her forest name, as those who choose to strike out into the wider world will generally choose new "city names" to mark their parting from the traditional Viera way of life. These chosen names are often inspired by the names of other races they encounter, or simply things that they like, such as "Cherry" or "Morning Glory", and so vary widely between individuals. Incidentally, "Fran" is one such name.

Source

Fran's name in FFXII is her "Forest Name", as both of her sisters call her that. In XIV, Fran is her CHOSEN name, so her Forest name is unknown. Ergo, it's not Fran from FFXII, it's an identical stranger using her name for reasons (coughfanservicecough).

[Zanarkand-Ronso]

I never said it was bad. I said it's not needed because the same Lore that lets the Females break free from their societal expectations and flee the Wood would let a Male do that. I've even said it's likely that a Viera NPC we meet will have a snippet about how and/or why he left the Wood (and there could be DOZENS of explanations, from being born from a Woman that fled the Wood and as such was recruited by a Warden, to, simply, "tradition is peer pressure from dead people" and peacing out in search of Adventure... as the PC is already hinted to be), but it's not needed for PCs for the mountain of reasons I've laid out across 1369 pages.

Thats just lazy as all heck. If its glossed over that easily and the males; who have previously did their thing separated from the Females, just suddenly decided to act like the females...why didnt this happen sooner, if not exactly at the same time as the females? If this is the lore and justification to it after...however long, its nothing short of just lazy.
It would be a real bloody shame if thats all we get to this big mysterious Male Viera that people want so badly.

On the other hand, being born from a Woman that fled the Wood and as such was recruited by a Warden
See, thats a "Real" idea would at least offer something.
But it only mentions that one Male Viera. The game recognizes every player character outside of the MC on your screen as an Adventurer. So if/when we see loads of Male Viera running around, the game will count them as another adventure. Its not asking much to just expand on and make mention that Now Male Viera have joined the outside world.

Instead of a lazy half-cocked gloss over that makes you ask "Why was it written this way?"

[WhiteArchmage]

But it only mentions that one Male Viera. The game recognizes every player character outside of the MC on your screen as an Adventurer. So if/when we see loads of Male Viera running around, the game will count them as another adventure.

NO
I've said this again and again. OTHER. PCS. DON'T. MATTER.
Yes the game considers them adventurers, but as far as the game cares they're Midlander Male Gladiators. It doesn't give two <kupo> what race or gender they are, their race/gender combo is purely for YOUR head-canon as a player.

Its not asking much to just expand on and make mention that Now Male Viera have joined the outside world.

No, it's not and I'm not saying it won't. I'm literally telling you that the rare Male NPC will have an excuse for being there. But there doesn't need to be some big event to explain OTHER PCs. If I start a lvl1 character and see Hrothgar around, THEY'VE ALWAYS BEEN AROUND. If I my lvl 35 adventurer sees a bunch of Au Ra in Coerthas Central just chilling next to Ishgardians, the game doesn't care that they're flying on a Lunar Whale or the Yokai Mount or doing Omega Emotes or Diamond Dust or have 30 Yokai minions out while playing with their Cellphone Tomestones. As far as the game's Lore is concerned: they don't exist.

If we took Lore to bind other players, there could literally only be ONE White Mage IN THE WHOLE GAME.

That might be fine for a single-player game (like the Ivalice games), but not for an MMO.

You both understand what Im asking for, but for some reason wanna fight me on it...
The Grand Reveal can be as simple as what you just typed.
My point is to not be lazy about it or gloss over it, and write in a decent explanation; one you so easily typed yourself. Maybe people are getting lost and caught on the "Expand the Lore" part of what Im saying.

Because you're deliberately misinterpreting us: we're literally telling you that if an NPC show us, he'll likely tell us why, I'm literally telling you Matsuno gave his blessing, I'm literally telling you Yoshi-P wants Matsuno involved. What I'm asking you, please, is to not police Other PCs with the Lore.

[Zanarkand-Ronso]

--NO
I've said this again and again. OTHER. PCS. DON'T. MATTER.
Yes the game considers them adventurers

--No, it's not and I'm not saying it won't.

--Because you're deliberately misinterpreting us: we're literally telling you that if an NPC show us, he'll likely tell us why, I'm literally telling you Matsuno gave his blessing, I'm literally telling you Yoshi-P wants Matsuno involved. What I'm asking you, please, is to not police Other PCs with the Lore.

--And thats all that matters, and thats all I was saying.
Next

--So what are we arguing about? And why are you bringing in White Mages and Minions? All I asked is that its mentioned that the Previously secluded Male Viera have now joined the outside world. I dont understand why you are so against that, does it ruin something about the Viera for you or something? Cause while we can sit here and talk circles about how these Viera are not the same as Ivalice Viera (even though they are still called Viera and we meet them in Ivalice) the Males are still living secluded and its even vaguely mentioned how rare their presence is.
Whats the problem here? Why the pushback?

--I didnt Misinterpret a thing, and Im not Policing anything. All I did was say, this is something I think they should do and I would like, that would get me on board with Male Viera. A non-lazy way of including them into the game, because never seeing a Male Viera till now is a big deal on every level. If it wasnt a big deal, then its weird that people will ride-or-die over not getting Male Viera, and there is this much push for them to be added.
Im willing to meet the community halfway if I can get the smallest thing I would like...a simple lore tidbit, that shows them joining the outside world.

[BunniEclair]

Male Viera are still Viera. And their exclusion from their own games is something worth exploring. If there is no reason to it, then why was it a thing, why have we never seen a Male Viera? The tiny bits of things we know about them has to have a reason behind it, or at the very least it would be fun to explore. So with what we dont know, it would be great TO know something.
For it to be glossed over like it never happened and here are Male Viera suddenly....its just lazy

Again, this is all stuff the team could easily explore within world of FFXIV. Idk what sort of grand reveal you’re hoping for as to the reason for leaving their way of life, but the end of days and the destruction of your homeland seems as good a reason as any to become a refugee or join an outside resistance. A big part of viera culture lore centers on the strict adherence to tradition, and the pushback against it from those who are ready to join the rest of society. It makes sense for some males to also feel this way more than it does for them to not.

[Zanarkand-Ronso]

Again, this is all stuff the team could easily explore within world of FFXIV. Idk what sort of grand reveal you’re hoping for as to the reason for leaving their way of life, but the end of days and the destruction of your homeland seems as good a reason as any to become a refugee or join an outside resistance. A big part of viera culture lore centers on the strict adherence to tradition, and the pushback against it from those who are ready to join the rest of society. It makes sense for some males to also feel this way more than it does for them to not.

You both understand what Im asking for, but for some reason wanna fight me on it...
The Grand Reveal can be as simple as what you just typed.
My point is to not be lazy about it or gloss over it, and write in a decent explanation; one you so easily typed yourself. Maybe people are getting lost and caught on the "Expand the Lore" part of what Im saying.

the situation where they live gets so desperate some of them agree to work with the WOL to save their forest etc, and they haven't so much abandoned their ways as they're pushed into a bad spot and forced to accept help.

Hey look, another great and interesting idea that isn't "Here they are...dont ask questions. Who cares, WoL is the Exception"
That idea can just as easily expand and balloon into males leaving the old ways.
All I asked for, is for it to not be a Lazy reason, or for things to just be glossed over like they didnt happen

[BunniEclair]

You both understand what Im asking for, but for some reason wanna fight me on it...
The Grand Reveal can be as simple as what you just typed.
My point is to not be lazy about it or gloss over it, and write in a decent explanation; one you so easily typed yourself. Maybe people are getting lost and caught on the "Expand the Lore" part of what Im saying.



Hey look, another great and interesting idea that isn't "Here they are...dont ask questions. Who cares, WoL is the Exception"
That idea can just as easily expand and balloon into males leaving the old ways.
All I asked for, is for it to not be a Lazy reason, or for things to just be glossed over like they didnt happen

You’re “losing” me because you aren’t listening to anyone and keep just going “but the LORE” over and over even after people keep giving you perfectly good explanations for why the existing lore is a non-issue. You can talk down to me all you want, but what it boils down to is you’re grasping at straws to try justify why you personally don’t want the viera in the game.

I have, as have several others, given you multiple reasons why I think that XIV is a great place for them to be revealed and why I am not worried about them dropping the ball on sufficient lore for them. You keep repeating that you want the lore expanded and that’s your only concern. I am asking you why that is a concern in the first place, when each race added to the game has pretty substantial lore that is continuously expanded upon as we move through the world. They’ve given no indication that they will simply plop down male viera and shrug their shoulders, yet you’re in here acting like that’s what people are asking for or what they’d do and trying to pass it off as a legitimate reason to not want them in the game.