Male Viera as a playable character! show your support

[Vahlnir]

Right, and to me Hrothgar are just Roegadyn with cat heads. Nothing unique there.

I am perfectly vindicated at looking at the numbers if people try to make claims about whether a race is a necessity or not. Even if all male Viera did was get male Miqo'te to swap to them, that alone is a much larger portion of the playerbase than the pittance who play male Roegadyn. My point is that SE, if they were hoping to captivate WoW refugees, has little to show for it as yet, because the deterrent to them playing this game really wasn't a very specific type of beast race body type being absent from it.

% of active chars played is a separate question to whether the race should be added but it certainly detracts from any claims premised on that ground as it ties in directly with the marginal profitability of the race, which tbh is the only metric by which one can claim if something is "needed" or not. Nice to haves =/= necessities and "unique" =/= value-additive in and of itself.

As far as attracting WoW refugees go, I don't think they were aiming to do so through playable races. People wanted an actual quality product to play and as things currently stand, WoW is not that. In that respect I think Yoshi P and SE have stepped up their game with Shadowbringers. It is off to an excellent start.

Regardless of how many you claim play certain races, SE apparently saw the benefit of adding Hrothgar. It wasn't out of the goodness of their hearts. There was clearly a large enough demand for it, and as a result reasonable profit to be had. If it was to no one's gain they wouldn't have bothered. Like them or hate them, they are here. And you don't seem to like them but that is okay.

[Sei_Konsetsu]

Right, and to me Hrothgar are just Roegadyn with cat heads. Nothing unique there.

I am perfectly vindicated at looking at the numbers if people try to make claims about whether a race is a necessity or not. Even if all male Viera did was get male Miqo'te to swap to them, that alone is a much larger portion of the playerbase than the pittance who play male Roegadyn. My point is that SE, if they were hoping to captivate WoW refugees, has little to show for it as yet, because the deterrent to them playing this game really wasn't a very specific type of beast race body type being absent from it.

% of active chars played is a separate question to whether the race should be added but it certainly detracts from any claims premised on that ground as it ties in directly with the marginal profitability of the race, which tbh is the only metric by which one can claim if something is "needed" or not. Nice to haves =/= necessities and "unique" =/= value-additive in and of itself.

Whoo man. So by your logic, those races that have low numbers should just be removed? I’m honestly not sure what you want. Long story short, people wanted a beasty like race way before Viera was announced, and have been actively asking for it for a good while now. Did Hrothgar do it justice? No, not really, but it was in the direction of what people wanted. You can argue your numbers issue all you wish friend, but the fact is, SE felt it was warranted enough to add Hrothgar over male viera, so you should get over you bias aginst them just because you don’t like them. Sure, not a large number of people are playing them, but the fact is people are playing them. If they ever add male viera, I guess we will see how your numbers hold up in this argument, but until then, please stop with the salt.

I'm happy for the players who wanted a more beast-like race. I personally liked seeing hrothgar added too, and I think it brings a lot of diversity and a good "world feel" if you get what I mean. It's just a pity their hairstyles are locked to the faces, but the devs are going to address this apparently.

Yeah, that does suck, really hope they address that or something later, if its even possible, but for now, I honestly just wish I had access to the hairs that are paid/earned in game. REALLY missing the “Snow” bandanna hair style.

[Senn]

Long story short, people wanted a beasty like race way before Viera was announced

Actually, this is not true. Back in 1.0, there was an in-game survey asking players what sort of race they wanted implemented.

Yoshi P himself even suspected "mammalian demi-beastmen" got the most amount of votes because viera were used as an example. I suspect this as well.

This is not to say beast-like races were not desired. It's just that viera were desired even more, even in 1.0 days. More so than beastmen.

[Lauront]

As far as attracting WoW refugees go, I don't think they were aiming to do so through playable races. People wanted an actual quality product to play and as things currently stand, WoW is not that. In that respect I think Yoshi P and SE have stepped up their game with Shadowbringers. It is off to an excellent start.

Regardless of how many you claim play certain races, SE apparently saw the benefit of adding Hrothgar. It wasn't out of the goodness of their hearts. There was clearly a large enough demand for it, and as a result reasonable profit to be had. If it was to no one's gain they wouldn't have bothered. Like them or hate them, they are here. And you don't seem to like them but that is okay.

It was predicated on expected profitability, which is what any profit-seeking enterprise has to operate on due to uncertainty. They themselves admitted they took a risk in that regard. However, attracting WoW refugees is one way to do that and that is what many people thought they were doing in adding Hrothgar, based on rather shallow analysis of WoW's player demographics. I happen to agree that it's not really fit for that purpose, but for as many people who see WoW as a poor quality product, just as many see FF in a similar light due to the ARR leveling experience and also what they perceive to be the lack of any end-game content in comparison to WoW plus a very vertical gear progression ladder.

My "claims" are based on what the census figures show. No more, no less. We're still waiting to see how they've settled following ShB.

Whoo man. So by your logic, those races that have low numbers should just be removed? I’m honestly not sure what you want. Long story short, people wanted a beasty like race way before Viera was announced, and have been actively asking for it for a good while now. Did Hrothgar do it justice? No, not really, but it was in the direction of what people wanted. You can argue your numbers issue all you wish friend, but the fact is, SE felt it was warranted enough to add Hrothgar over male viera, so you should get over you bias aginst them just because you don’t like them. Sure, not a large number of people are playing them, but the fact is people are playing them. If they ever add male viera, I guess we will see how your numbers hold up in this argument, but until then, please stop with the salt.

No, by my logic if you are going to claim it is a necessity, that is the only metric by which you can really demonstrate it in terms that add to the game's value. Qualitative terms like "diversity" etc. mean little if in the end they don't translate into the primary metric by which the company gauges how well the game is doing.

As I explicitly said it is not the only criterion based on whether a race should be added - for that they simply need for it to be profitable on net and probably the threshold for that is not too great a hurdle to overcome. However, the extent to which it is profitable is a better way of seeing just how much demand it is sating. They're two different things.

Viera have been desired since the game was released as per the polling conducted by SE itself.

At any rate, it's not that I have a bias against Hrothgar - it's more that your rather baseless arguments for not adding male Viera can be turned against Hrothgar, too. Of course you construe this as "salt".

[Vahlnir]

It was predicated on expected profitability, which is what any profit-seeking enterprise has to operate on due to uncertainty. They themselves admitted they took a risk in that regard. However, attracting WoW refugees is one way to do that and that is what many people thought they were doing in adding Hrothgar, based on rather shallow analysis of WoW's player demographics. I happen to agree that it's not really fit for that purpose, but for as many people who see WoW as a poor quality product, just as many see FF in a similar light due to the ARR leveling experience and also what they perceive to be the lack of any end-game content in comparison to WoW plus a very vertical gear progression ladder.

My "claims" are based on what the census figures show. No more, no less. We're still waiting to see how they've settled following ShB.

Personally, I want to see your figures. Got any links to share?

[Lauront]

Yes, you can go look at them here. Bear in mind that the Hrothgar/Viera female shares there are the total ones since all the graph is measuring is changes from existing races/new characters, and given that the two races were added as of ShB, those figures for them (insofar as the census counts the character or not) are total figures - whereas for other races they'd be marginal additions/losses. He provided their total % in a post further below, here. Their figures sit at around the same level as some of the least popular race/gender picks in the game. Thus why I say they might meet a minimum profitability threshold to be added but their figures don't indicate anything like a huge unmet demand/necessity. We'll see how further scans develop but I am not expecting overly huge divergences.

[Lauront]

Big yikes to that last one.

Still, although I doubt they'll add further clans, given that that was the second most popular category since they really loathe the idea of hybrids (I'm not too keen on them either) meaning it is effectively void, and given that the third was implemented via Au Ra, I hope this means that the next evolution will be further upgrades/enhancements to CC for existing races.

[Vahlnir]

Big yikes to that last one.

Eh, not really. There was a demand for a beast-like race even if it was small. Viera being requested more isn't a surprise. At the end of the day, they chose to appeal to both crowds. That was a bit of a bold move in itself. Yoshi P and SE clearly felt that both were necessary to appeal to the most amount of players, even if they were 1 gender each.

[Lauront]

I think you misunderstood me - that last one I mean is the item asking for mixed race options, like Lalafell-Miqo'te. Something they've routinely dismissed as an idea. I guess they can only blame themselves for putting it on that survey.

[Vahlnir]

I think you misunderstood me - that last one is asking for mixed race options, like Lalafell-Miqo'te. Something they've routinely dismissed as an idea. I guess they can only blame themselves for putting it on that survey.

Ah, gotcha.