Male Viera as a playable character! show your support

[CoolDad]

Lala to Hroth slider or bust

Proportions stay the same so minimum slider viera are just very tiny regular men

Edit:

[Ceallach]

To be fair bud if you comb through this thread, you will find that there's extremely few that claim the exclusion of the fem Hroth and Male Viera is homophobic or sexist.
Mostly everyone agree that they'd like the genderlock lifted in the future as a baseline in this thread.
Yoshi said they'd review feedback.
and thus people are giving feedback and sharing art and ideas.

I see more people being outraged that people dare request stuff, than actual hostile claims towards the devs in this thread.

¯\_( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)_/¯

In fairness, I'm a college student, so I don't have time to read nearly 300 pages worth of forum posts. I'm used to people being outraged for the sake of being outraged because that is mostly what I see on the Internet as a whole. Combine that with this site's reputation for being a cesspool of whiners.

Honestly, it can be difficult to even look at this site sometimes. The contents of this particular thread notwithstanding, there's plenty of silliness to choose from. People even wanted to give Raise to black mages. Black mages!

I just don't really have a lot of hope that I'll see something wholesome or well-thought on the forums very often at all, so when I post, it's usually because I think of myself as the voice of reason amongst a sea of idiots. Sometimes it leads to mistakes such as those I've made here, and I'm sorry.

While there is a vocal minority that has made this a gendered political issue it does not mean this thread nor the topic of having no gender locks is a gendered issue. Most I've seen is that people see NO point in make gendered locked races when it did not exist in ffxiv after ARR launched. Sure, there is those that do say 'in the year 2019 we should not have over sexualized females and overly masculine males', but that is not the main focus of the thread. It only becomes the focus of the thread when people make it. Many of which are those who are anti male viera who come in and tell us that we shouldn't get them bc of gendered politics etc.

I was mostly reacting to that minority and assuming it was the entire thread for the reasons listed above, which I admit was probably a mistake. My original point about worldbuilding is simply that some races and/or cultures can certainly have different structures where gender is concerned. One idea I posted on the Hrothgar thread was, "Maybe children with Hrothgar parents are born either female of the mate's race or Hrothgar, enabling grown Hrothgar to take mates of any Spoken race." This would be a lore-based reason why there are no female Hrothgar, and it's not the only idea I had. When lore takes a backseat to real life politics is where I draw the line. That's not something that should ever happen. Otherwise we have less a fantasy setting and more an echo chamber, and I hope nobody really wants that for FINAL FANTASY XIV.

Hate to break it to ya but this outrage did exist. Not saying they were right but uh...?

Thanks for pointing that out. I actually did not know that thread existed.

Excuse me, but I invest in this game by buying things on the mogstation and paying a subscription and buying merchandise. If I want to give feedback, I very well can and I will especially when I really support something. This is also an MMO that is constantly updated which means that player feedback is very important. Which means I can request and wish for things however I see fit. It is not up to you to tell me, or anyone else, otherwise. Like I get it, you don't like that we are requesting male vieras for reasons. But what do YOU personally lose from this by us requesting for male vieras? Its up to the devs what they implement. Most of us understand that, so stop assuming we don't. It will also be up to them if they take our feedback. Hardly anyone is hostile towards the devs in this thread other than those who are saying we are. I'm not sure if you read the title of the thread but uh, it says 'Thread: Male Viera as a playable character! show your support'. And we can show support any way we want.

Providing feedback and making demands are two different things, and I've seen posts that are essentially demands. I do not have a problem with players providing feedback, and considering the dev team even asked for that feedback, it would be nonsensical for me to be against that.

However, when I see posts that are essentially, "I pay my subscription, so I am entitled to tell you what to do with your game, and I think you're being sexist and/or homophobic," I get mad. I lose faith in humanity. Think about your own point of view that I've quoted here. You seem to think you're entitled to, and I quote, "provide feedback." I believe this is correct. You are entitled to provide feedback, and you are very obviously doing so. That's fine. When someone posts, "I invest in this game, so I have a right to demand my way, or I'll cancel my subscription because <insert whatever ridiculous insults here>," I take issue with that.

Am I being clear? I honestly have no faith in my ability to get others to understand me correctly, so I'll rephrase if I need to.

Yotsuyu's fate and the story that led her there absolutely broke my heart, and will probably be a sore point for me for a long time, but I fail to see how that has anything to do with wanting male Viera added into the game?

I've already explained that.

I don't fundamentally disagree with your perspective or beliefs in any real sense, but this thread has been very light on what you describe and has by and large been conducted in a respectful tone towards the devs. I think what you say was certainly truer of some earlier iterations of the topic, though.

Yeah, that's what I was reacting to at first.

TBH, the people who cannot distinguish fiction from reality and believe fiction must conform to certain political or moral ideals annoy me the most, especially when they're against a setting portraying such elements even in a descriptive sense. Nonetheless, I'm certainly not partial to the ideological persuasion you mention, but I want male Viera - why? 1) because I think gender-locks are idiotic for reasons besides ideology and 2) I like the wood elf vibe they've been given.

I'm with you there!

So if we're told male Viera eschew the idea of leaving the Wood, so we won't be getting playable male Viera, would that be an issue with you? I don't think it would be, but I thought I'd ask out of interest.

[Senn]

...

I wasn't keeping up with your conversation, but I skimmed the post and I just wanted to say I didn't like the fact people were dragging politics into this, either.

[Lukha]

Yotsuyu's fate and the story that led her there absolutely broke my heart, and will probably be a sore point for me for a long time, but I fail to see how that has anything to do with wanting male Viera added into the game?

I've already explained that.

So I had to dig back a little to find where you explained this, and I'm still kinda lost as to what you feel the connection between Yotsuyu and Viera/Hrothgar is. You say that people 'lack empathy' for Yotsuyu, but what specifically is giving you the impression that people don't sympathize with her plight?

Are you trying to imply that if people were 'truly concerned about gender issues', they would instead be protesting the game's handling of Yotsuyu instead of 'wasting our time' on complaining about something 'less serious' like including both genders of the new races? Because that's the only thing I can come up with that makes sense of your attempt to clarify? I really hope this isn't what you meant, because it's a very silly position to take, that has absolutely nothing to do with the topic of this thread.

Yotsuyu's fate and backstory were absolutely awful and tragic, and that's what made it good writing, because they transformed her from a one-dimensional monster of a villain into a woman who had deeply sympathetic reasons for doing the things that she did, even if they were still unquestionably evil deeds.

I sort of feel like the males if implemented won't have heels, but if they did probably something like this? but still with flat feet.

I think if we get male viera at all their racial gear will be a lot more tame than the females most likely.

This is everything I could possibly want from male Viera, especially that hair! And I really hope when we get them, the racial gear is similar to this; if the ladies are comfortable wearing next to nothing to run around the jungle in, surely the males would share similar views on fashion...

[Quipsy]

I'm in support of a big height slider so people can still have their dream of being a cute li'l killer bunny (I mean, look at Miqo'te, they're tiny little manlets but are clearly grown.)

But I want to be a FLEMISH GIANT. BIG rabbit. Very, very tall. Taller than Aymeric or Vampire Dad.

[Senn]

I want male viera the way Yoshi P envisions them. Slim, handsome, elegant.
Let's hope we get them into the game at all. Speaking of that...

To anyone who is new here, please leave a "like" on the first post of this thread, and share a link to this thread with your friends. The more we keep up the support, the more likely it is SE will implement male viera into the game. I would not expect male viera any time soon, but it's still good to keep up your support.

[TheRealJoJo]

Ah yes, think of the fictional children argument. So when we gonna delete the toddler-like lalafel? We can't have anything childlike in this game after all. It might lead to shotacon! Even though shota/loli does not equal sexualization of children and is in all honesty an art style. Goodbye Aliphinaud (shota)! Goodbye Alisaie(loli)! We must protect you fictional children!

I was going to leave it be for a bit, but I'll just tell my story.

Way back when I played PSO2, it being a JP game I was very reserved as to not disturb the actual Japanese speaking players. Eventually though, one of them did try to talk to me and they were the ones who got me into the cute art. What they told me was that "Shota" is slang for "Boy", and adding the "Con" to the end is what turns it into what we typically despise. It's not unlike the words "Paedo" (or "Pedo" as most people I know understand it as) and "Paedophilia" (which again, is also known as Pedophilia). Paedo is actually its own word.
So from what I understand, "Shota" isn't short for "Shotacon" they're two things in relation to a single thing (Where one is a descriptor and the other is a fetish). I'm currently reconfirming this.

But I'm also not naive enough to think that language doesn't change over time, and when someone says the word "Pedo" you instantly think of those deviants, right? I doubt many people thought "Pedology" (which ironically is a study of soils but w/e just put an A in there). So I can get what he's saying in how people associate that word with negativity. Sometimes you don't really think about it because I'm *not* a native Japanese speaker; I just have a lot of friends of many different languages that translate for me, and I'm currently waiting for my friend stationed in Japan to ask him about this particular topic and what their culture agrees on. For me I just know a word as a descriptor and use it.

Anyways, what I'm getting at isn't so much an excuse but more like a realization and acceptance of an incorrect term that may have a different social meaning than a dictionary one.

But I do mean boy-like when I said the word, which is also why I added the "/small" (or small). I really don't mind if they have a similar Lalafell-ish aesthetic and would think it's funny, or I'm fine if they look like Mini-Me with chiseled faces but incredibly short stature. Actually, that'd be hilarious! But again I'll be happy and open to anything SE wants them to be.
I just don't want people immediately going to sex when they think about the aesthetics of somebody. As a writer myself, I hardly actually think about people of the same or other races having intimate moments outside of it being a story point. I do have ideas of reproduction for unique races, but I don't approach that with the attitude of raunchy cinema playing in my head. It's more of a "This is a man, this is a woman, 1+1=3."

3k character limit is hard btw >_<

[Quipsy]

I kind of thought all guys were already halfway wearing heels since when they're standing around wearing nothing they appear to be wearing wedges. (Also a few shoes have a mild heel, like the high house boots/gaiters and things like that...) If they don't want to go all the way with a full-on higher heel they can just make the starting armor have more obvious heels baked in. Making thin/more elaborate looking heels would go a long way when it comes to strengthening the illusion of higher heels.

[CoolDad]

Though I do like the idea of digitgrade feet for all Veira, I don't know if Yoshi's team thought of things 'that' far. All races feet are basically the same save for size. They're having a hard trouble maping stuff for Veira AND Hrothgar's heads for goodness's sake, so they'll probably just go the safe route and give them 'normal' feet n' toes.

Oh yeah absolutely. I also feel if they had figured out the footwear and Viera were given digitigrade feet Hrothgar would have them as well, considering all the effort it would take to accommodate that for a single race, but they don't.

[VyelChuChu]

I wouldn't mind normal feet for hrothgar to be honest, I'd be content with some claws on the toes whenever there's no shoes on.