Male Viera as a playable character! show your support

[Amnmaat]

--What do you mean he "Had" to?
--I talked about lore among other things. Feel free to tell me what old talking points I recycled, when Im pretty sure all I did was add to the conversations that were already started.

He wanted hrothgar, but couldn't implement both genders.
You were the one accusing the thread of recycling, but your participation in it plays a big role in that. It's like you're driving a bus and accusing people of climate change.

It doesn't get traction. At. All. If you want to blame the devs for your created controversy, no one can stop that. There's no need to spin at all.

They told us everything well before we got it. Then we got it.

The game will continue whether we get it or we dont.

You're hilarious!

It doesn't get traction. At. All. If you want to blame the devs for your created controversy, no one can stop that. There's no need to spin at all.

They created the controversy by adding 2 races with missing genders

They told us everything well before we got it. Then we got it.

No they didn't, they waited 2-3 months before release. Well before would be before their reveal during the time we were asking for Viera.

The game will continue whether we get it or we dont.

Who said the game will stop? You're pulling stuff out of nowhere.

[Melichoir]

1.) You're even lucky you got Viera in the first place. They didn't have to add them at all.

The devs dont have to add anything to the game, technically. This isnt really much of an argument. It's pretty much saying "Be grateful they decided to add [insert content here] to the game" where this idea can be explained with virtually everything that is in the game currently. And a lot of what is added to the game is done out of pragmatism - theyre a business who have an invested interest in keeping me purchasing a sub. If they think adding a new race will do that and grow the player base, then that is what they will do. It isnt so much a favor as a calculated move.

2.) "I however *snaps fingers*have almost 2000 unique users to point to" - Ok, sure. I want a list of every user who actually wants it. Not those who just posted their thoughts. Also, "2000" users is a very, very small number in comparison to actual population of the game.

This forum (along with Reddit) makes up only a fraction of a fraction of the player pop. There are players (as I know a few myself) who do not post on these forums and would like to see Male viera and Female Hrothgar added. I would hazard a guess that if polled, most players probably would say (at the least) that they would like to see female Hrothgar and Male Viera added to the game at some point. People like customization and character creation. Which the devs actually know pretty well because that has been something that constantly gets brought up. Speaking of which....

3.) Again, you're lucky you even got viera. They already know they've got to add the other gender for both. It's on the very bottom of the list. With the whole covid-19 thing, etc, etc., things are pushed back a little as a whole. Also, wait until we find out whats going on at the next fanfest before throwing more of a fit.

I think this isnt quite hte exact way to look at things. It's not a check list on a wall, so to speak, but rather there are a few things that relate to one another and are likely being developed concurrently. As a point, what I said above is that more character customization is something that has been frequently requested. The devs have stated that due to how the old engine for character customization works, that it's limiting how things are done. It's part of hte reason why we have so few customization options overall, but also why some dont make sense (Why cant we get fitness sliders for all races? Or why do lalafell females have breast sliders when it does nothing). It is cause the engine is old and outdated and that is becoming more and more apparent. It is also the primary reason why adding new races is a pain in the ass. The ability to add more customization and new races/sexes stems from the same issue: The character customization engine is outdated and needs to be rebuilt.

So what would the pragmatic thing devs should do? It would be rebuild the character creation engine. By doing that, they can address two separate issues a lot more effectively. It isnt that "Oh, we'll worry about adding new races/sexes last" but rather "Oh, there are a few issues here that can be resolved if we tackle this thing over here."

Furthermore, outside of classes, character creation related stuff is usually a very hot selling point for FFXIV (let alone MMOs in general; Almost everyone loves it when we get more races to play as). While I am sure they will be adding probably one more healer + a dps class come next xpac, in terms of character creation side it would be a huge selling point to not only revamp the character creation engine so we can customize our characters even more but to also add the off sexes. This would be a huge huge selling point in terms of FFXIV and would generate a lot of hype. It would be an excellent move development wise for the franchise and probably pay for itself pretty quickly as a result as well as extend the lifespan of FFXIV as a whole.

So no, I would make a safe bet that it isnt 'bottom of the list' but rather is something they are actively interested in doing but have to work on other aspects first to make it happen.

[Senn]

The devs have stated that due to how the old engine for character customization works, that it's limiting how things are done. It's part of hte reason why we have so few customization options overall, but also why some dont make sense (Why cant we get fitness sliders for all races? Or why do lalafell females have breast sliders when it does nothing). It is cause the engine is old and outdated and that is becoming more and more apparent. It is also the primary reason why adding new races is a pain in the ass. The ability to add more customization and new races/sexes stems from the same issue: The character customization engine is outdated and needs to be rebuilt.

I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with you, but I just wanted to share a quote from Yoshi P with you:

When asked about whether viera and hrothgar would be the last new races to be introduced to the game, and if there were any plans to add more customization options to the established races, Yoshi P responded like this:

"if it is a customization option that significantly changes the shape of the races body, I think we would be better off to tackle the challenge of just introducing a new playable race all together instead."

Source

We would most likely see a new race before we saw sliders that would drastically change a character's body.

Either way, its not a game breaker nor remotely important.

idk, it's not game breaking, but it's pretty important to me. It's important to some people, and not important to others.

[Melichoir]

The Viera race was always known the be female only, where did the expectation come from? And what archetype would it even fill? If you want to play a tall male play Elezen.

I wish people would stop asking for useless additions.

We've gone over this point a few times but the TLDR is Viera is not a female only race, but that female are more visiable culturally. Males live separate.

This makes sense in certain FF titles as part of their world building, but in the context of FFXIV lore, it doesnt. You cant just copy/paste lore from anotehr FF title into this one and think itll be seemless. As a point - If your species is on hte verge of extinction and it is already demonstrated that not everyone in your species abides by cultural norms, there is very very little reason for Male Viera to be hiding out in the woods on Norvrandt. Unless were gonna argue that every single last one of them wont leave the woods to find a solution to their situation. Even given the situation, you progress pretty far into Rak Tikka Greatwoods before you officially encounter people of the viera tribe. Up til then you had no contact with these 'defenders'. In fact it's the females who end up engaging you. So much for them being forest protectors like the lore implied.

Also, there is a discrepancy between how the game handles viera versus otehr races. The cultures of all races differ quite a bit between Norvrandt and Hydaelin. You know, lalafells vs dwarvish culture, the Elves vs Elezen, etc etc. There are a small few similarities but they are pretty big differences between the two....except for Viera. they seem to be on both worlds adhering to the exact same cultural norms. Both of them dont allow males to leave the great woods and remain separate from females. Why is Viera some how exempt from cultural differences? It's almost like there are meta reasons for it rather than actual functional lore that fits within ffxiv.

I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with you, but I just wanted to share a quote from Yoshi P with you:

When asked about whether viera and hrothgar would be the last new races to be introduced to the game, and if there were any plans to add more customization options to the established races, Yoshi P responded like this:

"if it is a customization option that significantly changes the shape of the races body, I think we would be better off to tackle the challenge of just introducing a new playable race all together instead."

It would, by and large, probably be easier to just add a new race because they have a work flow for that (albeit one that takes forever). But character customization along with new races or updating existing ones is specifically hamstringed by the character creation engine. It's a wonky engine and outdated engine that cant even add slider options because it literally is built around having a set number of customization values (it's why female lalafells have breast sliders: they needed to fill that customization value wiht something otherwise they were gonna have issues).

While I dont doubt what his thoughts were at this point in time when he stated that, I do think it has become more and more apparent that the limitations of the character engine is causing more trouble than help. Tackle the character engine, and you can provide more customization to characters as well as streamline your process with tinkering with races or adding off sexes, along with extending the lifespan of hte game. Considering that it was reported they actually have been expanding their dev team, at the same time cutting back on putting out content a little bit (this is pre-pandemic, mind you) and more funding, it feels like they are working on something heavy duty.

[Senn]

Considering that it was reported they actually have been expanding their dev team, at the same time cutting back on putting out content a little bit (this is pre-pandemic, mind you) and more funding, it feels like they are working on something heavy duty.

So you think the cutting back on content and getting additional funding are signs that character customization might get expanded? Well, I'm not sure if that is the case, but if it is, that'd be pretty nice.

[TheMightyMollusk]

Please be civil or consider seeing a psychiatrist.

The irony is so thick, Tony Stark's making a suit out of it.

[DBriggs304]

Incorrect. When we were asking for Viera we were not asking them to add the females only. They're at fault for the decision they made.


You have no evidence to make this statement; I however have almost 2000 unique users to point to.


You're just vomiting their excuses.
A responsible company would expand their development team to relieve this intense pressure their 3D artists are facing.

They aren't at fault at all. We knew who they were, we got them. Its not a problem on their end...hence why the decision has remained. This lies with players creating their own narrative and going by that.

The evidence is in this thread. Its the same people over and over...similar to other mmo discussions. If it wasn't for the random non sequitur thought or picture, this thread would have been buried long ago. There is nothing new that has been added other than the same gripes from the same people who feel SE isn't listening just because their demand hasn't been met.

Maybe it will. Maybe it won't. Either way, its not a game breaker nor remotely important.

[Melichoir]

They aren't at fault at all. We knew who they were, we got them. Its not a problem on their end...hence why the decision has remained. This lies with players creating their own narrative and going by that.

Player hype machine was definitely a part of this, but the devs did actually let speculation run rampant. When we have a soft precedent for there being no gender locked races, if you introduce female Viera (Which have been in other FF titles), it isnt irrational for people to make a connection with what we have and how it would be a significant talking point for FFXIV specifically to be the first place male Viera appear in game as a playable race. Pair this with some of the wierd coding leaks, that there was already pre-existing dev materials for male viera, and a "We'll youll just have to wait and see!" non answer from devs, and it really isnt a far fetched idea for even a casual player to think male Viera is on the way.


Oddly, I feel they couldve diffused the situation by being more blunt or changing the reveals. Either be like, "Lore explains male viera are rare so you may not see them this expansion" or change how the reveal operated by revealing Hrothgar first then female Viera or revealing both at once. It's not completely on the devs, but it's also not 100% on the player base either. I think the failure lies more with the devs simply because they couldve better handled teh situation, or even just stuck with Hrothgar overall and not even done Viera.

[Amnmaat]

They aren't at fault at all. We knew who they were, we got them. Its not a problem on their end...hence why the decision has remained. This lies with players creating their own narrative and going by that.

The evidence is in this thread. Its the same people over and over...similar to other mmo discussions. If it wasn't for the random non sequitur thought or picture, this thread would have been buried long ago. There is nothing new that has been added other than the same gripes from the same people who feel SE isn't listening just because their demand hasn't been met.

Maybe it will. Maybe it won't. Either way, its not a game breaker nor remotely important.

You know that you're as much part of this "same group of people" that you see as a problem right? That's the nature of forums, and is working as intended. You're just jealous/apathetic that it gets as much traction as it does; in the end you're just feeding what you see as a problem.

On the other point, the devs are at fault. When people were requesting Viera they didn't say "please give us female Viera." You can try to spin it however you want but the missing gender issue is one they created 100% on their own.

On your last point, you're not who determines what's important or not; it's important to a lot of people; to the point the producer himself had to address it.

[Aluja89]

The Viera race was always known the be female only, where did the expectation come from? And what archetype would it even fill? If you want to play a tall male play Elezen.

I wish people would stop asking for useless additions.