Revelations from Keynote III (2019)

[YianKutku]

I don't think we will actually end up on the First at the end of 4.56, but we might find a way there, or at least know that we must go there for some reason. And once Shadowbringers is released, there must be a way to easily go back and forth between the Source and the First, because eventually we're going to have to celebrate the Source's Moonfire Faire event, and also port back to the Source every week to pick up Khloe's journals.

This is probably to the chagrin of the 3.x Warriors of Darkness, who had to kill themselves just to land on the Source.

Also it must not only be us who will be able to travel between the First and the Source and back, because we are shown what may be the primary hub town of Shadowbringers, and primary hub towns have thus far always have Marketboards and retainers. So we must be able to summon our retainers across Shards, and when we buy an item on the First's Marketboards, we will presumably have to pay interdimensional tax.

[Nezerius]

I don't think we will actually end up on the First at the end of 4.56, but we might find a way there, or at least know that we must go there for some reason. And once Shadowbringers is released, there must be a way to easily go back and forth between the Source and the First, because eventually we're going to have to celebrate the Source's Moonfire Faire event, and also port back to the Source every week to pick up Khloe's journals.

This is probably to the chagrin of the 3.x Warriors of Darkness, who had to kill themselves just to land on the Source.

Also it must not only be us who will be able to travel between the First and the Source and back, because we are shown what may be the primary hub town of Shadowbringers, and primary hub towns have thus far always have Marketboards and retainers. So we must be able to summon our retainers across Shards, and when we buy an item on the First's Marketboards, we will presumably have to pay interdimensional tax.

Or those things just keep on working for the sake of gameplay mechanics (Time-bubble events, Khloe, Marketboard, retainers), without really being affected by the story, or simply handwaved with a comment on the side (see: Crystal Braves in Ul'dah).

[hynaku]

So are they adding weight slider in 5.0. So we can be fat people like ones in video. They should add new limit job sumo wrestler for 5.0.

[TheGrimace]

Can it be Tuesday yet?

I have so many questions about potential possessions of bodies in other Shards thanks to the Warriors from the First. They were able to come to the Source because they held the Echo and the Crystals of Light, so they had the "power to transcend," as it were. But in order to cross dimensions to the Source, they had to leave behind their physical bodies in the First, alluding to the idea that their original bodies may be dead. Similar scenarios to what we now see with our Scion brethren.

Well, what happens to bodies when they receive this transferred consciousness? In the case of Zenos and the Elezen body his soul has overtaken, is the original Elezen now permanently hidden away, a prisoner in his own body while Zenos dictates his own plans? Did Arbert and the First Warriors possess Source Analogs of their own consciousness, or would Source Analogs even exist due to the 12,000 year differences in time causing wildly different births to have manifested? If a soul possesses a body corresponding to their own in a different Shard, would one consciousness be locked away, or would the consciousnesses combine to create a single "evolved" psyche?

It's all so confusing, but also fascinating to think about. I may be reading too much into things, but the fact is that we have such little information to go on that there are many possibilities that can arise. Tuesday can't come soon enough. I hope that I'll get some answers, although I get the feeling that the next three months are going to be absolutely excruciating to wait through.

[Iscah]

Something I've been thinking about is the description of what we'll be actually doing as Warrior of Darkness, which primarily seems to be championing the (lower-case) "darkness" of night rather than the "Darkness" of supernatural chaos... so are the two intrinsically linked? Or separate?

I can certainly accept being the Warrior of Night, if the story can tread that line convincingly.

[Nalien]

I'm really curious how Jobs are going to work with this... All the new zones are in the First, and so far travel there has required fairly extreme measures... Obviously we'll be an exception to that, able to teleport to and from zones with no trouble whatsoever, but lore wise, what about all the Job NPCs? I could see some of the quests involving completely new characters in the source, but every single one of them? No, some of the Job story characters are going to carry over, and they'll have to use new zones in some capacity for the quests, so how is Estinien going to join us in the First for that? "Throw wide the gates" going to be a very literal thing, perhaps?

Very interested to see where Garlemald goes with this, too... We're escalating to a full on war, then just... Disappearing... Presumably for a long time, too... All the new areas seem to be in the First, that's where the majority of the 5.x series is going to be taking place then, so how will Garlemald fit into that? Guessing there is one Azys Lla style zone still on the Source for such plot points, but I don't see it yet... Sure do hope Gaius didn't crawl out of the grave just for a 5 minute cameo while we spend the next 2 years elsewhere.

[Wyssahtyn]

I'm not going to say it's not sexist, but before bringing the hammer down too hard I think we need more information on the Hrothgar than the fact they exist and their basic appearance.

The males of both Miqo'te tribes tend toward being itinerants due to their culture. That's conducive to becoming adventurers... and I don't have either lore book myself, but are male / female birthrates skewed toward females in Miqo'te societies, or do the males just tend to be seen less due to their itinerant lifestyles / getting themselves killed vying for dominance?

Duskwights exist for the same reason drow elves are playable in D&D - so everyone can live out their Drizzt fantasies. (I kid. But I honestly don't know other than "Well, we need a second tribe for the elves.")

... I'll get to more tomorrow. It's late and I have to work tomorrow... nyeh...

I don't care if it is or isn't sexist. Whether it is or isn't is irrelevant to my question.

I scanned a loremonger's transcription of Miqo'te related entries from the lorebook, and while they didn't give a specific birth rate ratio (that I saw; I've often seen a 1:10 ratio quoted) like Viera's 2:10(?), they do state that the population is skewed towards females over males. Specifically, it states, "For reasons that are not entirely clear, female Miqo'te vastly outnumber males, a phenomenon unique among Eorzea’s races.” And while the possible itinerant nature of Tias (some, at least, may wish to travel to become stronger as in the case of U'odh Nunh) and the definite one of Keeper males might lend them to becoming adventurers, the Lodestone states, "Instinctual territoriality causes many among them (Miqo'te in general) to lead solitary lifestyles. Males in particular are said to shy from contact with others.” Solitary lives and shying away from contact. Not all that dissimilar from male Viera who also lead solitary lives and shy away from contact to such an extent that they might as well be ghosts.

To be frank, putting all this aside, the lore has never been a huge deal when it came to the PC, that is the WoL. The PC has always been made out to be atypical from racial norms, at least by the community. Certainly the devs aren't going out of their way to insert any Keeper/Duskwight prejudice against the PC in Gridania or any sort of reaction at all in Eorzea to Au Ra in spite of Yugiri's concerns or the massacre of Sidurgu's tribe. So it comes back to the big question of, "Why does it matter now?" If the devs didn't want to do male Viera because they didn't want to, then they should have stated that instead of trying to hide behind a flimsy excuse that falls apart when one thinks about it for more than a minute.

[Anonymoose]

So it comes back to the big question of, "Why does it matter now?" If the devs didn't want to do male Viera because they didn't want to, then they should have stated that instead of trying to hide behind a flimsy excuse that falls apart when one thinks about it for more than a minute.

At the risk of phrasing it too bluntly, this may be the closest I've seen anyone come to just saying, "In my opinion it looks hypocritical to to disregard the lore for fifty other kinds of PC-vanity only to suddenly invoke it as defense for denying character creation options that don't seem to with fit Japan's more comfortably traditional gender norms." without making it weird and/or being insulting. <raises glass>


EDIT
Also, Yoshida has always been pretty outspokenly anti-bunny-boy, lol. In a 2013 interview with Siliconera, he said that if they did Viera, they would probably make them female only and consider another race for males because, direct quote, rabbit males are "kind of weird." 2013!

[Cilia]

I don't know, a lot can happen in 2000 years. *looks at human history*

Geographically. We already know the cultures are very different as a result of the divergence.

So it comes back to the big question of, "Why does it matter now?" If the devs didn't want to do male Viera because they didn't want to, then they should have stated that instead of trying to hide behind a flimsy excuse that falls apart when one thinks about it for more than a minute.

Let's be honest - even if they outright said they didn't want to make male Viera because they find the notion distasteful (or whatever), people would still be up in arms over the sexism. Hell, it might be even worse of a shitstorm if they said that. No matter what reason they give there will still be people out for blood over the very fact male Viera aren't playable - if they have a lore reason it makes in-universe sense, at least.

... saw this coming a mile away when Return to Ivalice was announced...

At the risk of phrasing it too bluntly, this may be the closest I've seen anyone come to just saying, "In my opinion it looks hypocritical to to disregard the lore for fifty other kinds of PC-vanity only to suddenly invoke it as defense for denying character creation options that don't seem to with fit Japan's more comfortably traditional gender norms." without making it weird and/or being insulting. *raises glass*

That's what I'm pinning it on as well. Despite what some of the media it puts out might have you believe, Japanese society is still pretty conservative. While I was a bit surprised at the lack of male Viera because I knew this would happen if it came to that, I'm... not... at the same time.

I'm not going to deny that it's sexist and hypocritical, but... have they said lore is why the male Viera aren't playable? Have they given any lore on the Hrothgar, let alone explanation as to why the females (apparently) aren't playable? Have they said male Viera won't be playable? Etc etc etc. It's not over until the fat lady sings...

[KylePearlsand]

Geographically. We already know the cultures are very different as a result of the divergence.



Let's be honest - even if they outright said they didn't want to make male Viera because they find the notion distasteful (or whatever), people would still be up in arms over the sexism. Hell, it might be even worse of a shitstorm if they said that. No matter what reason they give there will still be people out for blood over the very fact male Viera aren't playable - if they have a lore reason it makes in-universe sense, at least.

... saw this coming a mile away when Return to Ivalice was announced...



That's what I'm pinning it on as well. Despite what some of the media it puts out might have you believe, Japanese society is still pretty conservative. While I was a bit surprised at the lack of male Viera because I knew this would happen if it came to that, I'm... not... at the same time.

I'm not going to deny that it's sexist and hypocritical, but... have they said lore is why the male Viera aren't playable? Have they given any lore on the Hrothgar, let alone explanation as to why the females (apparently) aren't playable? Have they said male Viera won't be playable? Etc etc etc. It's not over until the fat lady sings...

In the case of the Hrothgar, it could be a case that Females simply do not exist similar to how Galka were in FFXI. Of course this is just speculation as we have a reason why there is no male Viera from the storyteller but we know next to nothing about the Hrothgar/Ronso.