Job Request - Dark Transformation Theme'd Job [Vincent, Dante, Yuri, Bayonetta, etc]

[manamoppet]

Question though, why couldn't a full beast transformation be implemented? In MMOs that happen to have transformation jobs they often do a "full (type here)" transformation. Of course in the general concept I'm going more void/monster than beast (not trying to make a druid per say), so I guess I might ask "why can't one do a full pomander of wrath/lust" (items from deep dungeons that transforms you into a monster temporarily).

- In dungeons and other party content a full beast transformation would probably impact personal movement speed because of coherence between animation and travel distance (like with the pomands in PotD, and HoH). Bard doesn't give movement-boost in-combat, and ninja is the only one with higher movement speed. Not sure how this would impact party dynamics.
- Full transformation could obstruct field of view, and the whole thing with Demi-Bahamut occupying most of the screen space used to be an issue.
- Transformation in-combat could be laggy, and have to have cast-time since the server and pc-s/consoles need to load/register the correct position of the new model. Some people may then complain they can't do clipping and sliding while doing mechanics since all models to be used for quick transformation would have to be in memory and ready for use. This could impact performance, as I know my laptop (at least) stutter during some raids with large bosses and many effects (mostly The Royal City of Rabanastre). The PoTD and HoH are hallways, and not that resource intensive compared to raids and more open areas.
- I can imagine some people would look at the Pomander of Rage and complain that their transformation isn't as powerful as that. Same with the potential of turning into a Red Chocobo.
- Lorewise I'm not sure how someone would differentiate between a Trickster Imp/voidsent and a player, but that could probably be sidestepped/ignored.

The core aspect of Morpher seem interesting, using souls in place of beast material. It would open up many more possibilities, but also limit the content we could do with it, like you said. If they can implement that mix of limited and normal jobs I could see it maybe working somehow. In FFXIV it may creep into other jobs' lore too, though it could be a nice opportunity to expand on the lore of soul crystals, maybe?

Sorry if I sound negative ^^; Glad you liked the aspect duality thing :)

[Shougun]

He's not quite Lv70 yet, but he's getting there. Went with Highlander to get the Dante beard going.

EDIT: Now that I think about it, a Devil Trigger-type job would be an excellent excuse to have a DPS job for Dante.
DMC5 Spoilers:
SDT is an amazing transformation in itself imo.

Haha that's awesome, well done !

- In dungeons and other party content a full beast transformation would probably impact personal movement speed because of coherence between animation and travel distance (like with the pomands in PotD, and HoH). Bard doesn't give movement-boost in-combat, and ninja is the only one with higher movement speed. Not sure how this would impact party dynamics.
- Full transformation could obstruct field of view, and the whole thing with Demi-Bahamut occupying most of the screen space used to be an issue.
- Transformation in-combat could be laggy, and have to have cast-time since the server and pc-s/consoles need to load/register the correct position of the new model. Some people may then complain they can't do clipping and sliding while doing mechanics since all models to be used for quick transformation would have to be in memory and ready for use. This could impact performance, as I know my laptop (at least) stutter during some raids with large bosses and many effects (mostly The Royal City of Rabanastre). The PoTD and HoH are hallways, and not that resource intensive compared to raids and more open areas.
- I can imagine some people would look at the Pomander of Rage and complain that their transformation isn't as powerful as that. Same with the potential of turning into a Red Chocobo.
- Lorewise I'm not sure how someone would differentiate between a Trickster Imp/voidsent and a player, but that could probably be sidestepped/ignored.

The core aspect of Morpher seem interesting, using souls in place of beast material. It would open up many more possibilities, but also limit the content we could do with it, like you said. If they can implement that mix of limited and normal jobs I could see it maybe working somehow. In FFXIV it may creep into other jobs' lore too, though it could be a nice opportunity to expand on the lore of soul crystals, maybe?

Sorry if I sound negative ^^; Glad you liked the aspect duality thing

Hmmm no need to feel sorry about sounding negative, but may I suggest you've not presented a reason it can't happen but things that one must consider when making the job? In other words you've presented issues, not walls, and best solve issues with solutions .

For example in terms of size many other MMOs don't have this issue but they also don't let you play Godzilla, so the solution would be not to take up the whole screen lol. I do think making the character larger is reasonable and a good idea but it shouldn't become "where is the floor? I can't see the aoe markers...!" hehe.

In terms of movement speed the melee form would be fast in that their attacks act as gap closers, they wouldn't be hilariously fast outside of that. Similarly WoW and druid you don't see the cat form going warp speed even though it's a fast looking creature, I understand your concern but I don't think it will be too hard to balance/allow players to suspend their disbelief. As for the winged demon movement speed would probably be as fast as a ninja and they'd have a few strafe boost moves, but they wouldn't be mounted speed if that's what you're wondering lol.

For Pomander of Rage vs transformation job I'd suggest that WoW has some OP temporary transformations in jobs and druids didn't flip tables when it happened :P. Although I would caution SE drawing too many parallels to the pomander that makes people compare them actively. I mean your concern could happen but honestly I'd just be like "so what" lol, bosses regularly do cool things players can't do.. the feeling is actually common :P.

Transformation lag would just be SE's programming issue, I never lag when turned into a frog in fights or running a macro that changes my hot bars so I doubt they'll have issue. If they can't because of technical reasons then.. that's a bit sad but you're right we should be worried then (but I don't think we should be, as many other MMOs we can see there isn't an issue changing forms).

Lore wise they could even use a voidsent to be part of the quest lol, perhaps in the beginning a powerful imp thought it would be funny to topple a civilization by turning them into monsters - get some bloodborne narrative into there somewhere.. Those who barely survived learned how to harness and control this tainted power. So the beginning could very well be what you say, to ground it in lore we already know (another big time voidsent we know is the one that caused the lalafell to turn in the Scholar quest- tried to avoid spoilers but if you know then you know).

So imo of course you've brought up concerns - which is good (that's how you go about implementing stuff seriously), like what if it lags or what if players can't even tell what's going on anymore, but I don't think any of the issues are without solutions. Especially stuff like "find a balance between large and too large, and not all forms need to be large even".

I definitely think morpher could come into the game at a similar point blue mage did, except much easier since morpher isn't really beloved like blue mage -so making it a side content is actually probably a step up for that job (side content as in limited job). It could also become a main job but I think your concerns of scale and mechanics would become more real for morpher than even the job I'm suggesting, since if you transform into a Manticore but don't look like it (scale) then it feels a bit sad right? (But as limited content it would be fine to be that scale).