Job Request - Dark Transformation Theme'd Job [Vincent, Dante, Yuri, Bayonetta, etc]

[Shougun]

This thread is dedicated to a job inspired by some of the imagery and concepts of Vincent and his Chaos Materia. Specifically the chaos materia, which is a transformation mechanic Vincent has (quick copy collage image above of similar concepts). There are other concepts that can be pointed at that relate to this this idea like Devil May Cry's Devil Form especially Sparda via Dante's Devil Trigger. Also there is a game some may know from the ps2 era called Shadow Hearts which has the main character Yuri who uses demon souls to transform until sanity has gone (he's called a harmonixer in game). May also find some inspiration from Terra Branford and her Esperkin ability.

I've wanted a transformation job for a while, and have liked the imagery/idea of Harmonixer as well consider Blue Mage from FFXI taking similar lore points and had really liked it's lore - so here I think SE could make a new job. Keife191 started a thread kicking off with Vincent being a good example which inspired me to use him as reference, but because it had vampire in the thread title some people were taking the wrong concept (insert Twilight vampire) from it.

Blue mage in FFXI for those that don't recall the tl;dr is that you soul gets broken, an empty vessel prepared for monstrous energy, and given time and power you'll turn into a Soulflayer (Mindflayer, Chthulu like monster). Funnily the shattering of your soul is a bit non-voluntary, they explain what happens to you afterwards lol (you're kidnapped sort of).

I think the job would benefit with the dark like lore Vincent, Harmonixer, and Blue Mage FFXI had, so in that I'd suggest SE definitely consider it a more taboo job - perhaps even not allow the job to transform in towns to set the idea that you do these sorts of deeds outside of regular judging view.

For the attack and visual style I think of picturing Spawn from the comic books with his magic cape, Doctor Strange with his floating posture, and Bayonetta (like spawn) for attacks. In this aspect it might feel like a mage, but I don't believe it has to have mage clothing (may consider brd/mch - ranged physical gear). While not exactly what I'm thinking Scathach from Dun Scaith is approaching the concept.

If we're going vincent theme for weapons we could use dual wielding pistols or long rifle to avoid stepping on MCH too much, but I think I have an idea to really set the visual mood of the job and make a unique weapon for an MMORPG.

With a weapon type I believe Bayonetta visuals would be very cool (spells outside of transformation and also perhaps transformation animation inspiration). In bayonetta her power comes from her hair, which happens to also make her clothes, just to be clear i'm not suggesting players strip themselves naked to cast spells lol I mean specifically that "thread" and sort of visual attack aspect (not necessarily hair either)..


I think the weapon could be a cloak, like you see on Vincent, or Spawn (comic hero), and to really set the theme of the attacks like Bayonetta. I also believe these cloaks could be part of the lore of how the transformations are done, with each cloak soaked in monstrous energy (blood and magic) and while just wearing such a device is asking to be corrupted its not impossible for the most strong willed and wild to utilize. So these sort of living devil cloaks, a sort of monster phylactery, would be their weapon - and could really set a unique visual style especially for relics. For basic attacks I believe the job should have both basic melee attacks and ranged attacks (just a visual difference based on proximity), if you wanted to give them the Dante cocky feeling then when they're at a distance their ranged attack could simply be them pointing their finger at the enemy like a gun and firing off bolts of dark energy (picture Voldemort in the last Harry Potter movie and that dark energy and living cloak as well). Of course the cloak could form into other weapon shapes, kind of get to do whatever with such an abstract weapon lol.

Some vague ideas on the transformations/gimmicks:

In base form I think a mix of instant and short cast times spells (not black mage duration, a little samurai ish feeling) with again a sort of Bayonetta visual, so perhaps some of these skills are mid range and have a sort of physicality sense of coming from you (not long cast or as out of no where (fire 4) like black mage). If you stayed in base form only you couldn't compete damage wise with other jobs though (this is a transformation job! lol), it just offers some functionality and can be expanded on in the mage form (your damage comes from properly utilizing your forms).

For the transformations I don't really want to go into depth on potency and such because I believe SE will do what's best there but I might try to help suggest some transformations and gimmicks.

The first three transformations would be core transformations, including a melee damage focus, melee bruiser (solo tank), and ranged damage focus. Outside of that there could also be augmented self/mage form and transportation transformations like Druid in WoW has, which are actually pretty neat because they can be cast in combat.. (could restrict use when in dungeons though if that's a concern).

May also consider ultimate temporary forms like Demi-Bahamut with Summoner (temporary mechanics) and or upgraded versions over time (so expansions have something special to offer as the job upgrades, WoW has some "glyphs" that can alter the visual appearance of some stuff).

So you'd have at least a few forms:
1 Bruiser (semi tank)
1 Damage Dealing Melee
1 Damage Dealing Ranged
x Damage Dealing mid range void form?*

1-3 transportation forms, you could have one for water, ground, and air, or SE could bind them all into one. The definitely "coolest" option would be that there are three and are automatically transformed between as it makes sense (enter water from air = automatic change to form, and not just the same mount visual).

0-x ultimate, can be part of the job mechanic that for short periods you get a much larger wild berserk looking form. May be future content.

In WoW these forms allow the druid to play different roles, when they spec for it, such that a druid could truely tank or damage deal or heal - obviously FFXIV doesn't work like that with the talent tree not being a thing here. So what I think you could see is phasing between forms each having a unique mechanical style of gameplay such that you might feel as someone given many forms to combat. Preferably rather than the forms having timed lives I'd like to see mechanics that encourage shifting, such that while you could stay in one form after a certain period of time or actions you'll get a bonus in the next (as well as the mechanics of a form might be helpful for your content, like in tight quarters or needing speed to dodge aoes). This could be as simple as each time you use an ultimate in a form you can't use the ultimate build up skill in that specific form again until you've been in two other forms first, but there are no other negatives or bonuses (this is still a BIG deal, but if you needed that extra second for raid utlity or timing you get it). Ultimate build up skill/ideas are listed below, just concepts at least.

Each form could have a few gimmicks not only mechanically but also in terms of what they offer:

Bruiser - the "tank" form, here I'd suggest no mobility skills but a sort of mechanic to shrug off moderate damage on interval, such that you might be able to help pick up stray trash in a group dungeon but you definitely wouldn't be able to hold a boss. Or in other words you could hold a boss about as well as titan egi could (and can't take tank busters). Because this form is on a damage dealer I'd suggest the damage from skills in this form are actually enhanced when taking damage, meaning when solo this form is definitely viable even if you over gear the monsters (it's not just a "help me I'm not prepared/strong enough" like titan might be seen as, but it wont dethrone a tank ability to take damage or mean you can soak tank busters).

While used more in solo play this form could help if your healer is stressed and you know unavoidable raid damage is coming, your secondary tank died and your main tank needs help with adds (for a short while you could hold out), it may also help keep rotation bonuses (bonuses from changing forms, rather than sitting in one mode only if another form is one you can't use optimally for a specific fight mechanic).

Melee damage dealer - I think an interesting gimmick could be every attack skill acts as a short distance gap closer, giving a sort of ravaging clawing demon effect (enemies cannot escape you, but all your mobility is towards the enemy - going away from the fight is not a skill it has). I also think a skill that moves you to the closest flank or opposite flank if you're on one already, combined with positional skills would be neat. So you'd be clawing up and moving very effectively from side to side and rear.

When you leave an area with a properly built up combo jump you could lightly highlight that section on your screen only as a void wound (like left flank has a light effect on the circle) and once both flanks have been inflicted you could use a combo on the rear that opens the entire back side to any positional for the raid (True North applied to the backside, all weaponskills completed during this time have a slight potency boost). During an open backside I think greatly lowering personal cooldowns could be fun, so you become a nightmare of flurry attacks - once completing this though you'll likely want to switch to keep rotation bonuses (remember I suggested there should be a mechanic that rewards you for switching after a certain amount of time or actions, so good players are rewarded with diversity).

Ranged damage dealer - Multi armed winged demon - Glides swiftly and has a few peppering attacks, like one might think of with bard. Mechanic with conjuring bolts in hand automatically as a sort of ammo system (multi-armed), with movement and certain skills encouraging their return rate. What would encourage a player from firing them all off at once or waiting would be a few skills that do things like greatly increase recharge rate (or even make another pair of arms) and skills that for a short time increase/combine bolt damage (for example the increased damage buff could be a shorter cooldown, such that it would line up once with multi-arms ultimate skill and then another time without such that you might hold off on firing everything at once if the oGCD is almost ready). Comes with a few dash left and right attacks (could be one skill that fires off a void bolt and dashes in the direction you're currently moving).

Finally I think what could mix in with the high mobility is a sort void pylon mechanic, after a certain successful criteria is met (like number of fired projectiles), you can place a void pylon. The ultimate skill for this form would be to stretch out the arms and raise up each pylon into projectiles - what might visually feel like very large Red Mage Fleche skill or large lightning bolt toss from Dark Souls but void themed (fleche is the blue sword oGCD skill red mage has). Here however the amount of damage would involve the quantity of pylons placed before activation and their distance from each other (there would be a max distance, you don't need to go to the four corners of the map but they would optimally not be right next to each other). Around the time of completing this ultimate you'd be near wanting to change forms for bonus.

A raid utility could be from the void pylons providing something to the team, meaning your placement is quite thoughtful (they need to be apart from each other but also in key places for allies). This utility should ideally be different than what mage form or melee form offer in either an enemy debuff or team member buff (in general speak mage form offers light restoration utility and melee is damage for at least weaponskill based jobs).

Mage form - If SE really wanted to go all out I believe you could take the base form of the job with it's skill and "enhance it" with mage form. To keep the high mobility of the job in this form when a spell is cast the spell is cast from a sphere of void energy (created via another mechanic) with a longer cast time but higher potency (but it's not being cast by you, so you can move around). For balance I believe a mechanic could be put into place to build up how many void spheres you have out at once and the cast speed, when you're out of void spheres (because they're casting) your spells become instant but less potency than what is coming out of the spheres. Mechanic in this job could be casting different spells and creating more powerful variants by grabbing a spell and combining it with another.

For example lets say you cast a Shadethrust like ability (Scathach), you might grab another to slightly increase the radius (two barrel attack) but it'd also slightly increase potency and more-ever cause the second one to cast off instantly meaning more damage in the long run (rather than waiting for two separate off timed casts you accelerate it into one). Combing would have a cooldown. Alternatively you cast two shadethrust, void spike (picture Warcraft 3 Flamestrike but with FFXIV graphics), cast a room wide potency enhancement spell (increases ally skill damage a little but more specifically to your orbs), and use fast cast to get off your combine magics spell off before the first shadethrust vanishes causing an almost limit break like visual on the boss (and very heavy damage). So the ultimate from this job (as the other ones sort of have a "final moment of glory" before you should probably switch) would be building up to maximum void spheres possible and then combining it.

The mechanic to gain more spheres could perhaps have to do with being able to cast a spell in a target radius, causing your sphere to rush to that area and allow you activate one of your sphere emanating skills. Each emanation skill would cancel the other, but you could choose between light healing, light damage, or light resource restoration - the effectiveness of the placement and choice rewarding you to earn more spheres (so lightly healing 6 allies obviously worth more than dealing light damage to the boss, but if it was a trash group then light damage worth more than light healing).

This job's mobility wouldn't match the other two in speed but also consider an orb swap skill (the orbs show up in your list like a chocobo/egi ally might for easy targeting and easy to know what they're casting). Other fun mechanics could include chucking your active spheres at allies or enemies not only having an immediate aoe affect but also improving positional for subsequent spells. Pulse skill that causes all active spheres to double tap their current emanation effect and fire at target, they would also lock onto the target with their currently casting spell IF their current target had died (meaning the spell wont be cast at a corpse, you can redirect spells if you want - technically some line attack spells might still be okay to hit a corpse). There are a lot of ideas and perhaps some should be saved for a possible geomancer like job but just to end with one more, a chariot skill that causes the target sphere to allow a player to jump on the sphere and be whisked away to your location with a % mp and hp heal in the process (jump being the consent action, so its not on accident - the mp restoration being the main nice part and the heal being acceptable).

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Sort of an aside but later in the character's development I think the transformations happening without disrupting movement (such that stringing a form into the next form feels like slicing melted butter) would be really cool, sort of a story point of your character reaching control of their ability and making it feel great to slide between forms.

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Now obviously I'm open to whatever, if people have a favorite mechanic or something please go ahead and suggest it too! I just wanted to suggest that each form has a gimmick mechanically and a use in the fight, such that while a good void mage might be hitting the spells and transformation rotations while a great void mage would be thinking about which form would be best both now and in the future ("I know during this part of the fight it's really tight so I bet I can help the melee get off their combos as my melee form, and during this phase I can plan to be in my mage form to bolster our healer's" because if you just rush change forms you won't be building up each form's "ultimate"). Perhaps a skill or an element of randomness to make the changes a bit less linear and sometimes unplanned (the rotation for X boss wouldn't always be x y z in that order), such that you might get a special bonus in mage form that unlocks ranged form that you were just in, but normally you'd had moved into melee. Just another element to keep the job on your toes. So if you wanted to play in a bit of melee, a bit of mage with geometry, and a big of machine gun bard (or whatever they do with the job, or you suggest ) then it'd be a great job for people who don't want to be stuck with one play style but want to play a single job in a fight (part of being a morpher like job is that diversity of playstyle, although I understand if SE reigns in the concept a bit for balance and consistent like-ability).

Ultimately though I'd be happy with just about any sort of transformation job and would just have some preference if it was dark themed (but if it wasn't I'd still probably play it). All the combat ideas could be scrapped - I just wanted to help add some idea tinder to help spark something by trying to add a unique weapon, theme, and a bit of a lore excuse on why they can do what they do (the blood and aether soaked cloaks with dark magic on them help protect the user from the madness, but only slightly).

Thank you for reading, please feel free to post transformation ideas you'd like to see - whether they be images or not, weapon ideas for the job, or whatever (they don't have to be dark themed, just my preference).





Tl;dr: If you've played FF7 Dirge of Cerberus / know the back story of Vincent in FF7, played Shadow Hearts, Dante's Devil Trigger in DMC (and the other heroes who have that), then you have a strong idea of what this thread is asking for. Transformation job with some dark themes.

[Dualgunner]

You want me to have to decide between Dark Knight and Devil Trigger for my Dante alt. >:CCCCCCC

[Shurrikhan]

So, some manner of Wildling/Morpher/Voidwrought?

I tend to really enjoy hybrids with the ability to rapidly transform (ideally, far more viable to transform to or especially weave in than WoW's Druid forms), so at a glance, I think I'd be all for this.

[Theodric]

I liked Shadow Hearts. It's such a brilliant gem of a game. I'd be all for something like this.

[manamoppet]

Hmm... I'd consider it if we could do something like choose the aspect of the transformation - choosing between light and dark. Maybe if one could turn the "cape" inside out to do that maybe? Sort of like wearing a fur cape lined on one side with e.g. Amdapor Achamoth scales/Kuribu feathers for mage and ranged, and the other side with fur from e.g. a Coeurl and Behemoth for melee damage and defence increase.

Going by the categories above, I'd imagine it would go like:

- Bruiser could be Behemoth
- Damage dealing melee could be Couerl
- Damage dealing ranged could be Hippogryph, Waukkeon, or Zu
- Magic damage could be Achamoth/Kuribu, or later something else, like Apa, and Steppe Anala

The transformations could also come from other beasts of course.

Slavic and Norse mythology spoke about people (werewolves) transforming at will by wearing wolf skins, so if FFXIV were to implement something like a transforming class I'd take a look at those influences as well. Also, Norse berserkers were supposedly fighting in trance-like states, while wearing either wolf, bear, or boar skins. To go berserk for a berserker was considered akin to a transformation for the berserkers as well. So that could be used as inspiration along with the Trance used by Terra from FFVI as an ultimate finisher or LB3.

Edit: A full beast transformation probably couldn't be implemented, but if something like the aura effects from Dragoon and Summoner were used to indicate the transformation, it could probably work.

[Shougun]

You want me to have to decide between Dark Knight and Devil Trigger for my Dante alt. >:CCCCCCC

*in devil may cry scoring/combo voice*

DECIDE!

To be honest Dark Knight could have a sort of enraged thunderous and void aetheric aura effect (like warrior's enrage, just hopefully mechanic different enough to warrant it not feeling like a copy). But in terms of transformations I feel like we could get a lot more mileage out of "dark transformation" if it wasn't bound into Dark Knight, which is the hope here with this job :3.

Also share picture of alt if you have/want .

So, some manner of Wildling/Morpher/Voidwrought?

I tend to really enjoy hybrids with the ability to rapidly transform (ideally, far more viable to transform to or especially weave in than WoW's Druid forms), so at a glance, I think I'd be all for this.

Yeah the idea is definitely to be shifting through forms and not just picking a route like you see mostly in WoW. There is supposed to be mechanical / strong feeling difference between each form but still fit within the narrative of FFXIV gameplay (like I'm not suggesting this one job can on the fly be main tank, main damage dealer, and main healer lol).

I could see some more fluent in and out transformations being suggested but as you see from the skeleton system I suggested it was mostly to allow each form to build into a cumulative finale, a sort of coup de grâce. I felt if forms shifted too fast it might be difficult to do that, but mobility was definitely a thought to give the job a sort of high octane feeling.

Melee being this almost zerg like relentless ravenous demon, the ranged feeling like some epic arcade mecha game with those lock on rockets and sweet strafe maneuvers, mage being more of a puzzle with a few clever movement tricks having to do with the void spheres but still pretty great pace in that while there would be heavy casting it wouldn't be burdened fully on you (like summoner feels pretty movement fast for being a mage), and finally bruiser would be more powerful the more damage/damage sources you take so it actually has justification to be used in solo play outside of trying to punch up through level barriers - an issue which titan egi suffers. Also when you take on a bunch of enemies at once that tends to feel pretty cool (lending to that high octane concept, the job should feel like you want to lean into the chaos - and the shifting gamepaly mechanics I think help gather players who don't want just one type of play style in one job), now of course I mention balance must dictate the bruiser form can't replace a tank lol but it would be a fairly impressive form if minor details in a group dungeon go wrong (like an add or two, or just to hold a boss for a few seconds while the healer raises but unless the tank 'vokes asap you're going to go splat).

I liked Shadow Hearts. It's such a brilliant gem of a game. I'd be all for something like this.

YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE! Before that thread I refrenced in the post I would reference Yuri (Shadow Hearts hero) first because I was like "I want that, I want - that -" but to be honest Vincent is probably a faster easier reference for a crowd of people who play FF games, which is why I used it first for this thread's title.

Hmm... I'd consider it if we could do something like choose the aspect of the transformation - choosing between light and dark. Maybe if one could turn the "cape" inside out to do that maybe? Sort of like wearing a fur cape lined on one side with e.g. Amdapor Achamoth scales/Kuribu feathers for mage and ranged, and the other side with fur from e.g. a Coeurl and Behemoth for melee damage and defence increase.

Going by the categories above, I'd imagine it would go like:

- Bruiser could be Behemoth
- Damage dealing melee could be Couerl
- Damage dealing ranged could be Hippogryph, Waukkeon, or Zu
- Magic damage could be Achamoth/Kuribu, or later something else, like Apa, and Steppe Anala

The transformations could also come from other beasts of course.

Slavic and Norse mythology spoke about people (werewolves) transforming at will by wearing wolf skins, so if FFXIV were to implement something like a transforming class I'd take a look at those influences as well. Also, Norse berserkers were supposedly fighting in trance-like states, while wearing either wolf, bear, or boar skins. To go berserk for a berserker was considered akin to a transformation for the berserkers as well. So that could be used as inspiration along with the Trance used by Terra from FFVI as an ultimate finisher or LB3.

Edit: A full beast transformation probably couldn't be implemented, but if something like the aura effects from Dragoon and Summoner were used to indicate the transformation, it could probably work.

A duality system to mix up the transformation mechanics could be really neat, could also look cool visually as you go from one to the other! Of course personally I prefer demons, so the light side would be angelic, but I do think a coin mechanic could be fun to flesh out and improve the rotation (to keep it from being too laid out as "this is it, this is your rotation - don't deviate").

One of the things mentioned in the other thread I referenced was Morpher, we could consider at the same time this job is released there is a limited job inspired by transformations but in the classic vein of morpher. Morpher in FF (just explaining to everyone, not specifically thinking you don't know) is like a Blue Mage of a specific monster type - rather than learning a spell from here and a spell from there the morpher takes on the whole aspect of a monster, giving them a lot more focused power but a lot less diversity power. So rather than just bad breath you'd be the whole honking morbolo with vine whip and all. So if you wanted some animal transformations I think we could see that in a limited job morpher, if this job is released around the same time it might also take away some of the baggage people feel about limited jobs (since this would be the main job transformation style).

Anyway just wanted to mention morpher could be an avenue for transformations too, although more likely to be limited or "advanced job" than just a normal job (advanced being a mix of normal and limited, which helps paint a full picture but also set proper limitations for party play).

Trance lore could be used in either job too, definitely - especially as it's a FF concept (like mist or crystals).

Question though, why couldn't a full beast transformation be implemented? In MMOs that happen to have transformation jobs they often do a "full (type here)" transformation. Of course in the general concept I'm going more void/monster than beast (not trying to make a druid per say), so I guess I might ask "why can't one do a full pomander of wrath/lust" (items from deep dungeons that transforms you into a monster temporarily).

[Dualgunner]

He's not quite Lv70 yet, but he's getting there. Went with Highlander to get the Dante beard going.

EDIT: Now that I think about it, a Devil Trigger-type job would be an excellent excuse to have a DPS job for Dante.
DMC5 Spoilers:

SDT is an amazing transformation in itself imo.

[manamoppet]

Question though, why couldn't a full beast transformation be implemented? In MMOs that happen to have transformation jobs they often do a "full (type here)" transformation. Of course in the general concept I'm going more void/monster than beast (not trying to make a druid per say), so I guess I might ask "why can't one do a full pomander of wrath/lust" (items from deep dungeons that transforms you into a monster temporarily).

- In dungeons and other party content a full beast transformation would probably impact personal movement speed because of coherence between animation and travel distance (like with the pomands in PotD, and HoH). Bard doesn't give movement-boost in-combat, and ninja is the only one with higher movement speed. Not sure how this would impact party dynamics.
- Full transformation could obstruct field of view, and the whole thing with Demi-Bahamut occupying most of the screen space used to be an issue.
- Transformation in-combat could be laggy, and have to have cast-time since the server and pc-s/consoles need to load/register the correct position of the new model. Some people may then complain they can't do clipping and sliding while doing mechanics since all models to be used for quick transformation would have to be in memory and ready for use. This could impact performance, as I know my laptop (at least) stutter during some raids with large bosses and many effects (mostly The Royal City of Rabanastre). The PoTD and HoH are hallways, and not that resource intensive compared to raids and more open areas.
- I can imagine some people would look at the Pomander of Rage and complain that their transformation isn't as powerful as that. Same with the potential of turning into a Red Chocobo.
- Lorewise I'm not sure how someone would differentiate between a Trickster Imp/voidsent and a player, but that could probably be sidestepped/ignored.

The core aspect of Morpher seem interesting, using souls in place of beast material. It would open up many more possibilities, but also limit the content we could do with it, like you said. If they can implement that mix of limited and normal jobs I could see it maybe working somehow. In FFXIV it may creep into other jobs' lore too, though it could be a nice opportunity to expand on the lore of soul crystals, maybe?

Sorry if I sound negative ^^; Glad you liked the aspect duality thing :)

[Shougun]

He's not quite Lv70 yet, but he's getting there. Went with Highlander to get the Dante beard going.

EDIT: Now that I think about it, a Devil Trigger-type job would be an excellent excuse to have a DPS job for Dante.
DMC5 Spoilers:
SDT is an amazing transformation in itself imo.

Haha that's awesome, well done !

- In dungeons and other party content a full beast transformation would probably impact personal movement speed because of coherence between animation and travel distance (like with the pomands in PotD, and HoH). Bard doesn't give movement-boost in-combat, and ninja is the only one with higher movement speed. Not sure how this would impact party dynamics.
- Full transformation could obstruct field of view, and the whole thing with Demi-Bahamut occupying most of the screen space used to be an issue.
- Transformation in-combat could be laggy, and have to have cast-time since the server and pc-s/consoles need to load/register the correct position of the new model. Some people may then complain they can't do clipping and sliding while doing mechanics since all models to be used for quick transformation would have to be in memory and ready for use. This could impact performance, as I know my laptop (at least) stutter during some raids with large bosses and many effects (mostly The Royal City of Rabanastre). The PoTD and HoH are hallways, and not that resource intensive compared to raids and more open areas.
- I can imagine some people would look at the Pomander of Rage and complain that their transformation isn't as powerful as that. Same with the potential of turning into a Red Chocobo.
- Lorewise I'm not sure how someone would differentiate between a Trickster Imp/voidsent and a player, but that could probably be sidestepped/ignored.

The core aspect of Morpher seem interesting, using souls in place of beast material. It would open up many more possibilities, but also limit the content we could do with it, like you said. If they can implement that mix of limited and normal jobs I could see it maybe working somehow. In FFXIV it may creep into other jobs' lore too, though it could be a nice opportunity to expand on the lore of soul crystals, maybe?

Sorry if I sound negative ^^; Glad you liked the aspect duality thing

Hmmm no need to feel sorry about sounding negative, but may I suggest you've not presented a reason it can't happen but things that one must consider when making the job? In other words you've presented issues, not walls, and best solve issues with solutions .

For example in terms of size many other MMOs don't have this issue but they also don't let you play Godzilla, so the solution would be not to take up the whole screen lol. I do think making the character larger is reasonable and a good idea but it shouldn't become "where is the floor? I can't see the aoe markers...!" hehe.

In terms of movement speed the melee form would be fast in that their attacks act as gap closers, they wouldn't be hilariously fast outside of that. Similarly WoW and druid you don't see the cat form going warp speed even though it's a fast looking creature, I understand your concern but I don't think it will be too hard to balance/allow players to suspend their disbelief. As for the winged demon movement speed would probably be as fast as a ninja and they'd have a few strafe boost moves, but they wouldn't be mounted speed if that's what you're wondering lol.

For Pomander of Rage vs transformation job I'd suggest that WoW has some OP temporary transformations in jobs and druids didn't flip tables when it happened :P. Although I would caution SE drawing too many parallels to the pomander that makes people compare them actively. I mean your concern could happen but honestly I'd just be like "so what" lol, bosses regularly do cool things players can't do.. the feeling is actually common :P.

Transformation lag would just be SE's programming issue, I never lag when turned into a frog in fights or running a macro that changes my hot bars so I doubt they'll have issue. If they can't because of technical reasons then.. that's a bit sad but you're right we should be worried then (but I don't think we should be, as many other MMOs we can see there isn't an issue changing forms).

Lore wise they could even use a voidsent to be part of the quest lol, perhaps in the beginning a powerful imp thought it would be funny to topple a civilization by turning them into monsters - get some bloodborne narrative into there somewhere.. Those who barely survived learned how to harness and control this tainted power. So the beginning could very well be what you say, to ground it in lore we already know (another big time voidsent we know is the one that caused the lalafell to turn in the Scholar quest- tried to avoid spoilers but if you know then you know).

So imo of course you've brought up concerns - which is good (that's how you go about implementing stuff seriously), like what if it lags or what if players can't even tell what's going on anymore, but I don't think any of the issues are without solutions. Especially stuff like "find a balance between large and too large, and not all forms need to be large even".

I definitely think morpher could come into the game at a similar point blue mage did, except much easier since morpher isn't really beloved like blue mage -so making it a side content is actually probably a step up for that job (side content as in limited job). It could also become a main job but I think your concerns of scale and mechanics would become more real for morpher than even the job I'm suggesting, since if you transform into a Manticore but don't look like it (scale) then it feels a bit sad right? (But as limited content it would be fine to be that scale).

[Haxaan]

I 100% agree with this, please make this a thing! I've wanting an Esper Transformation Emote, but my making a whole job out of it... ummm yes please