Add ilv requirement please in ShB[Dev Request]

[Eli85]

I don't necessarily disagree with the request, but the leveling dungeons are part of the MSQ, and so for new players to be suddenly told, "You need to go farm old dungeons and / or purchase vendor or play gear to meet the ilevel requirements of the new leveling dungeons," is off-putting, to say the least. In fact, this is likely why there are no ilevel requirements as it is, for S-E does not want players to quit the game because they have to do that, when they just want a story experience. What I think is a much more prudent change, is an ilevel upscale, assuming you meet the dungeon's physical level requirement.

[MariaArvana]

I don't necessarily disagree with the request, but the leveling dungeons are part of the MSQ, and so for new players to be suddenly told, "You need to go farm old dungeons and / or purchase vendor or play gear to meet the ilevel requirements of the new leveling dungeons," is off-putting, to say the least. In fact, this is likely why there are no ilevel requirements as it is, for S-E does not want players to quit the game because they have to do that, when they just want a story experience. What I think is a much more prudent change, is an ilevel upscale, assuming you meet the dungeon's physical level requirement.

This idea doesn't hold up as strongly since Baelsar's wall is part of the MSQ as well; and that has an ilvl of 235(?) attached to it thus if they haven't reached that ilvl, they aren't allowed to continue with the MSQ anyway. There's plenty of ilvl barriers throughout the MSQ, they're just always at max lvl of that expansion instead of through it (except the end dungeon & trial of each which do have one.) Considering the SB MSQ also hands out free gear like candy, it'd also be impossible to get gated by any ilvl requirements if someone is actively taking upgrades. The ilvl lock would be more a QoL to make sure people can't bring their alt jobs into these dungeons with whatever gear they hobbled together from the inventories, even if that stuff was lvl 1.

[Eli85]

Snip.

Baelsar's Wall, while it is part of the MSQ, is not a leveling dungeon. It is an end game dungeon. Those two kinds of dungeons are on very different progression paths, and accordingly, appeal to very different kinds of players. Baelsar's Wall follows a linear gear progression, while leveling dungeons do not. As a player, if you decide to play the end game of an MMO, you know what you're signing up for: a gear treadmill. Now the leveling dungeons do appeal to people who just want to experience the new expansion's story, and that's why requirements are absent.

Snip.

It is problematic to view all game content and systems in an amalgamated whole; for different content does appeal to different players. In this context, there are a sizable number of players who buy the expansion, play to the level cap, then quit. It is these players who will balk at farming and / or buying gear to do a dungeon, and the developers know it. Which is why there are no ilevel requirements for entry. So an upscale, while it may not fit some systems, does alleviate the difficulties with the players who only level to cap once, then quit.

Snip.

I never said it would be out of place, I said it would be off-putting to players who buy the expansion, level to cap, then quit until the next expansion (and, of course, in this game, do all the content they miss a month before the next expansion). All of those players would just quit and never come back when hit with ilevel gates. That's not something S-E wants, so the ilevel gates do not exist for that subset of content.

[RokkuEkkusu]

Baelsar's Wall, while it is part of the MSQ, is not a leveling dungeon. It is an end game dungeon. Those two kinds of dungeons are on very different progression paths, and accordingly, appeal to very different kinds of players. Baelsar's Wall follows a linear gear progression, while leveling dungeons do not. As a player, if you decide to play the end game of an MMO, you know what you're signing up for: a gear treadmill. Now the leveling dungeons do appeal to people who just want to experience the new expansion's story, and that's why requirements are absent.

Let me rephrase what others have already said in an orderly fashion (with a little overlap here and there):

1. Baelsar's Wall (a HW endgame mandatory dungeon) has an item level requirement of 235.
2. Baelsar's Wall must be cleared to eventually reach Sirensong Sea (a SB leveling dungeon).
3. Sirensong Sea has no item level requirement. So if a person felt like it, he/she can enter the dungeon with only a level 1 weapon and no other gear equipped (and obviously get knocked out in one hit).

If you don't take the initiative to gear yourself up with tome gear, vendor gear, HQ quest gear, and/or gear you automatically earn in a leveling dungeon, that is on you. The devs and the game can only hold your hand for so long. Before long, your teammates will be upset at you for not reasonably contributing to the party.

[Seraph522]

I don't necessarily disagree with the request, but the leveling dungeons are part of the MSQ, and so for new players to be suddenly told, "You need to go farm old dungeons and / or purchase vendor or play gear to meet the ilevel requirements of the new leveling dungeons," is off-putting, to say the least. In fact, this is likely why there are no ilevel requirements as it is, for S-E does not want players to quit the game because they have to do that, when they just want a story experience. What I think is a much more prudent change, is an ilevel upscale, assuming you meet the dungeon's physical level requirement.

The thing is, an ilvl upscale would run counter to every other portion of the game, especially endgame content, where you are gated from entering content until you have a high enough ilvl. Adding an ilvl upscale would encourage the opposite mentality in players, who would just assume further that gear doesn't matter and they don't need to upgrade.

I'm also not convinced by the progression-barring argument, as the MSQ tends to shower you with good HQ gear at appropriate points; new players working through it the first time should have plenty of good gear options available and wouldn't need to run dungeons multiple times to gear up. The main problem comes with people leveling alt classes, who often don't realize that they need to seek out alternative sources of gear and thereby come into content with too-low ilvl gear. Adding a reasonable minimum ilvl that doesn't bar the path would be the best solution.

Edit: MariaArvana's posts also point out issues with that argument; looks like we overlapped on the post timing.

[HyoMinPark]

I don't necessarily disagree with the request, but the leveling dungeons are part of the MSQ, and so for new players to be suddenly told, "You need to go farm old dungeons and / or purchase vendor or play gear to meet the ilevel requirements of the new leveling dungeons," is off-putting, to say the least. In fact, this is likely why there are no ilevel requirements as it is, for S-E does not want players to quit the game because they have to do that, when they just want a story experience. What I think is a much more prudent change, is an ilevel upscale, assuming you meet the dungeon's physical level requirement.

In my experience, it tends to be the veteran players that already have job(s) at max level that go into leveling dungeons in shoddy gear. Not the babies, usually (though, that can happen). But, the MSQ checks your item level during the cap for each expansion with trials and MSQ dungeons. Baelsar’s Wall has an i230 requirement—if you can’t meet at least that for Sirensong Sea, you don’t need to be in there. (And even i230 I don’t think is enough; I’d push it to i240 or i250 at least).
Newbies going through the MSQ receive coffers with i240 gear in it during 3.x (both accessory coffers and left-side; and they get a weapon option), so they will easily meet Baelsar’s check. After that, it’s just accepting the HQ i255 pieces from the SB MSQ/supplementing with i260 Shire).

Baelsar's Wall, while it is part of the MSQ, is not a leveling dungeon. It is an end game dungeon. Those two kinds of dungeons are on very different progression paths, and accordingly, appeal to very different kinds of players. Baelsar's Wall follows a linear gear progression, while leveling dungeons do not. As a player, if you decide to play the end game of an MMO, you know what you're signing up for: a gear treadmill. Now the leveling dungeons do appeal to people who just want to experience the new expansion's story, and that's why requirements are absent.

Uh, you have to go through Baelsar’s Wall to even get to Stormblood’s story... so your “leveling dungeons appeal to people who want to experience the story” isn’t really an adequate defense of no requirements... because Baelsar’s Wall is part of the story, yet still has requirements. The same will be said for the Ghimlyt Dark come Shadowbringers.

Even if players opted to do no other “end-game dungeons”, there are still MSQ required ones they have to do—and those have item level restrictions/gating on them. Don’t meet the requirements, you have to gear up and come back later. And the requirements are already extremely lenient—i230 for Baelsar’s when the cap was i270.

[Eli85]

Snip.

I feel like there is a big point several of you are missing. I am not talking about end-game MSQ dungeons (like the oft referenced Baelsar's Wall), but leveling dungeons. They are two very, very different animals. Citing Baelsar's Wall ilevel gate doesn't disprove anything that I have said, as the players who are off-put from ilevel gates, do not get there until just before the next expansion launches.

[HyoMinPark]

I feel like there is a big point several of you are missing. I am not talking about end-game MSQ dungeons (like the oft referenced Baelsar's Wall), but leveling dungeons. They are two very, very different animals. Citing Baelsar's Wall ilevel gate doesn't disprove anything that I have said, as the players who are off-put from ilevel gates, do not get there until just before the next expansion launches.

Yeah, the “end-game” dungeons are an absolute joke in terms of the amount of outgoing damage they offer—leveling dungeons have far stricter syncs, and, because of that, hit much harder. Especially on someone who is undergeared. All the more reason to have item level requirements on them, honestly.

Your “reason” for no requirements is “they don’t want to gate players out of the story”—but the story already gates players. That’s what people are trying to tell you, and I think you’re missing that. It doesn’t matter that the gating is at the different level caps for an expansion; it’s still there, and you cannot progress without meeting it. The only way to skip it is to shell out cash for a story skip, but that doesn’t work for current expansions—otherwise, you have to meet the requirements.

Considering how easy it is to acquire decent gear in this game, the restrictions should be on more than just “expert” dungeons. Otherwise, you end up with tanks in Sirensong Sea in i200 Antiquated gear, accessories from ARR, or—even better—an Augmented Ironworks weapon in Sirensong.

[Crushnight]

I feel like there is a big point several of you are missing. I am not talking about end-game MSQ dungeons (like the oft referenced Baelsar's Wall), but leveling dungeons. They are two very, very different animals. Citing Baelsar's Wall ilevel gate doesn't disprove anything that I have said, as the players who are off-put from ilevel gates, do not get there until just before the next expansion launches.

from SB start to Sirensong you get given plenty of ilv 255 gear to meet a ilv requirement of ilv 245 if a person were to use a jump potion they get given better gear with ilv 260 shire gear no new or returning person(a returner is either going to jump potion or had done Bealsar's wall) will have trouble with such a requirement the people this requirement will affect the most are those leveling alt jobs at which point they should know how useful gear is while leveling and it would be down to that player to get it.

[Kalise]

I feel like there is a big point several of you are missing. I am not talking about end-game MSQ dungeons (like the oft referenced Baelsar's Wall), but leveling dungeons. They are two very, very different animals. Citing Baelsar's Wall ilevel gate doesn't disprove anything that I have said, as the players who are off-put from ilevel gates, do not get there until just before the next expansion launches.

Well, the fact remains, that you're talking about people rushing through MSQ and leveling via dungeons.

These "End-Game" dungeons of previous expansions, do end up in "Leveling Roulettes" and so can be considered Leveling Dungeons.

In addition, they are required for MSQ progression. If you can't meet the requirements for Baelsar's Wall, you literally cannot get to a point in the MSQ where Sirensong Sea is available.

However, if you have a job that beats Baelsar's Wall and gets you to the point where you unlock Sirensong Sea, you can now queue up in your level 1 starter gear and enter Sirensong Sea.

In what world does this make sense? That the ilevel requirements to progress to a point in the MSQ is not then shared by the content that required you to meet those previous ilevel requirements to access in the first place?

Even if players just stopped playing until the next expansion when they met a ilevel restriction... They'd still have to then actually gear up to progress the MSQ to enter the new expansion by going through these "End-Game" dungeons as is and again, with more effort than "Just buy some vendor stuff if you're an idiot and not picking the gear the MSQ literally gives you" because unless you can grab the max level vendor stuff from the new expansion, the previous expansions "End-Game" content will have a higher bar than what is achieved through easy access gear (I.e. Go buy stuff from vendor for Gil)

So, essentially the case that you're arguing is that... If there were some (Not particularly stressing) min ilevel requirements for leveling dungeons (That likely won't impact 99.99% of players going through the MSQ and picking up the gear it gives out) that suddenly a significant playerbase will just quit day 1 of a new expansion and wait until the following one to... Then still need to obtain min ilevel requirements for MSQ dungeons anyway irregardless of if "Leveling" dungeons needed min ilevel gear due to the presence of the "End-Game" MSQ dungeons with ilevel requirements.