We interrupt your current server woes to talk about casting

[indira]

gotta love SE's ghetto windows movie maker style movies

[WillRiker]

Uhn. You need to wait half of a second between letting go of the control stick and confirming the target of your spell, you will also not simply loose your spell to the cancelling effect because it doesn't lets you start casting while moving, so it's easy enough to adapt to this by simply doing what we all did (or at least I did) before action queuing came by, hitting the button until the ability goes off.

I admit this game is pretty fast but not as fast as that little action getting in the way of anything. Unless i'm wrong, I haven't done Ifrit or Moogle yet, so.

Also, before you say it, the 'brake' button is not lagless at all, it has the exact same lag letting go of the directional button, it does gives a better synchronization between server and client because the client assures the server of wtf is going on at the screen. Depending on what gets judged by the server as correct, you will either be 'lag-jumping' in other player's screens or you will get corrected in your own screen if you're suffering from heavy lag. It's not as much a panacea as it seems.

Disclaimer: My technical knowledge is very small, I could be wrong in all this, it's just suppositions

in terms of lag, or inertia, the face target button serves as a stopper. Basically it tells the server, "Yeah i know that you think the character is moving, but he isnt." It prevents spells getting halfway through the cast only to cancel as if you moved because you cast it too soon.

our point is that we shouldnt need to press a button for this. it should automatically happen when we let go of a movement button/toggle.

[Nakiamiie]

a controller to open a macro after each time you move would get too annoying to be able to use

On the same level as pressing a key on the keyboard.
Honestly, I'm going to wait until I can actually TRY it and SEE for myself before complaining, you guys should do the same as well.
It does sound like a good idea to me, let's see in practice what it really though.

[Riaayo]

"The client side VFX (effects) and animations function asynchronously, but the server determines whether recasting is possible or not by the quickest client to server communication without waiting on the graphics.

However, as I mentioned previously in a separate thread, FFXIV is a server/client type of online game, so everything that you input is sent to the server and until the server processes the functions and delivers the result to the client, a physical time delay will occur depending on everyone’s network environment.
This is the same for FFXI, FFXIV, WoW, Rift, and SWTOR.

Compared to stand-alone games, this spec is something that is essential for online games, so please understand.
(For the tech saavy, I will go ahead and say that there is still some room for packet queue streamlining.)"



Can we get an estimate on how much room for packet queue streamlining there is? It's fine to say that FFXIV functions in the "same way" other mmos are, except that it's not. I do not experience the same delays on other games I do on this game, and it's not just me so my internet connection is not to blame.

I don't want to be "that guy" but even in SE's own interests, the amount of delay in this game is destroying the ability for players to have a viable reaction time to actions in the game compared to other MMOs utilizing these boss movement mechanics.

Is 2.0 going to "fix" this? I sincerely want to know because that's been my expectation, and I think it has been many other people's expectation as well. If it won't, please tell us, and tell us why specifically FFXIV will not be able to run the same type of server client interface as WoW with a massively longer delay in communication?

I cannot speak for others but I guarantee you this is pretty much my #1 problem and concern with FFXIV, as it is something that will impact the game no-matter what content you add to it. And while hearing that the game will never react to my commands as quickly as WoW will be a deep cut, I would rather hear it now than log in 2.0 expecting something different and being sorely disappointed.

[Rydin]

On the same level as pressing a key on the keyboard.
Honestly, I'm going to wait until I can actually TRY it and SEE for myself before complaining, you guys should do the same as well.
It does sound like a good idea to me, let's see in practice what it really though.

I understand that and normally thats my attitude... but it doesn't bother you for the producer of the game to say "Gamepad users will be fine as long as they aren't concerned with quick spellcasting?"

[Rydin]

Can we get an estimate on how much room for packet queue streamlining there is? It's fine to say that FFXIV functions in the "same way" other mmos are, except that it's not. I do not experience the same delays on other games I do on this game, and it's not just me so my internet connection is not to blame.

I don't want to be "that guy" but even in SE's own interests, the amount of delay in this game is destroying the ability for players to have a viable reaction time to actions in the game compared to other MMOs utilizing these boss movement mechanics.

Is 2.0 going to "fix" this? I sincerely want to know because that's been my expectation, and I think it has been many other people's expectation as well. If it won't, please tell us, and tell us why specifically FFXIV will not be able to run the same type of server client interface as WoW with a massively longer delay in communication?

I cannot speak for others but I guarantee you this is pretty much my #1 problem and concern with FFXIV, as it is something that will impact the game no-matter what content you add to it. And while hearing that the game will never react to my commands as quickly as WoW will be a deep cut, I would rather hear it now than log in 2.0 expecting something different and being sorely disappointed.

Exactly... since day one the game has been plagued by lag that is just short of "Unbearable"
If 2.0 is going to fix this... then 2.0 is when moving needs to be made to interrupt spellcasting....

And then, just to insult our intelligence you call it "Facetarget command" because you are too embarrassed to say that your game needs a "Stop Moving Command"
Just call it what it is, SE....

[Rukkirii]

And here is the other /facetarget post from Yoshida that I promised. ^_^

You weren’t able to make it so what we see is an animation, but internally the character is turning around instantly?

I will go ahead and answer this for the animation team as well.
We’ve performed tests on everything, including the suggested method.

As I commented in my previous post, heavy focus has been placed on quick movements for the /facetarget command.

Taking into account continuous usage, there were cases where the character would stop and do a 180 without movement. Also, in the case that there is a delay between the internal line of sight check and the animation, the casting animation would begin mid-turn.

Furthermore, in the case of spells with a short casting time, graphics were affected drastically when continuously using /facetarget and instantly casting. After using /facetarget, in the case of moving mid-turn or using a weaponskill mid-turn animation, I am sure there would have been comments saying “My feet are sliding when I change direction…what is this? This isn’t FF!”
(The current FFXIV system does not separate upper and lower body animation movements.)

With all this said, there are things that we can and can’t do in regards to differences between the input and what is seen. There is also a difference in the priority between game functionality and graphical display. Where to draw the line is quite difficult since this is FINAL FANTASY, but this was my decision as it I felt the trade-offs were unacceptable.

I feel that visuals should continue to be one of the strongest assets of FFXIV going forward and I would really like you to continue to pay attention to stylish and cool visuals.

As a FINAL FANTASY, we have every intention of paying attention to this, but with your comment I will be sure to take this into account even more and it will be reflected in future updates and 2.0!

[Skies]

in terms of lag, or inertia, the face target button serves as a stopper. Basically it tells the server, "Yeah i know that you think the character is moving, but he isnt." It prevents spells getting halfway through the cast only to cancel as if you moved because you cast it too soon.

our point is that we shouldnt need to press a button for this. it should automatically happen when we let go of a movement button/toggle.

The thing is that Yoshi already explained that it won't at all get 'halfway through the cast only to cancel' because it will give you a "This ability cannot be performed at this time" error if you cast while the server thinks you're moving. That was in the cuar's translation right up there D: (unless i'm misreading, as always)

"The client side VFX (effects) and animations function asynchronously, but the server determines whether recasting is possible or not by the quickest client to server communication without waiting on the graphics.

However, as I mentioned previously in a separate thread, FFXIV is a server/client type of online game, so everything that you input is sent to the server and until the server processes the functions and delivers the result to the client, a physical time delay will occur depending on everyone’s network environment.
This is the same for FFXI, FFXIV, WoW, Rift, and SWTOR.

Compared to stand-alone games, this spec is something that is essential for online games, so please understand.
(For the tech saavy, I will go ahead and say that there is still some room for packet queue streamlining.)"



Can we get an estimate on how much room for packet queue streamlining there is? It's fine to say that FFXIV functions in the "same way" other mmos are, except that it's not. I do not experience the same delays on other games I do on this game, and it's not just me so my internet connection is not to blame.

I don't want to be "that guy" but even in SE's own interests, the amount of delay in this game is destroying the ability for players to have a viable reaction time to actions in the game compared to other MMOs utilizing these boss movement mechanics.

Is 2.0 going to "fix" this? I sincerely want to know because that's been my expectation, and I think it has been many other people's expectation as well. If it won't, please tell us, and tell us why specifically FFXIV will not be able to run the same type of server client interface as WoW with a massively longer delay in communication?

I cannot speak for others but I guarantee you this is pretty much my #1 problem and concern with FFXIV, as it is something that will impact the game no-matter what content you add to it. And while hearing that the game will never react to my commands as quickly as WoW will be a deep cut, I would rather hear it now than log in 2.0 expecting something different and being sorely disappointed.

A small explanation from a person who believes he is smarter than he is:
What he means to say is that there is only so much they can do for their lag, they can and will fix what is possible because the current system is in fact sub-par (and that is one of the big reasons behind 2.0 being a complete reconstruction, they need to rewrite the way the game does it's networking). However, not all lag is fixable due to the very nature of the internet itself.
Imagine as if they had a bottleneck at their servers for the data coming in and out. They can widen that, but if there is another bottleneck between your computer and their servers, nothing can be done on their side.

[Rydin]

A small explanation from a person who believes he is smarter than he is:
What he means to say is that there is only so much they can do for their lag, they can and will fix what is possible because the current system is in fact sub-par (and that is one of the big reasons behind 2.0 being a complete reconstruction, they need to rewrite the way the game does it's networking). However, not all lag is fixable due to the very nature of the internet itself.
Imagine as if they had a bottleneck at their servers for the data coming in and out. They can widen that, but if there is another bottleneck between your computer and their servers, nothing can be done on their side.

Which is exactly why you don't implement anything that is completely dependent on lag until after the server API is rebuilt

I'm not at all against moving interrupting spellcasting...
But I do think this change should have waited until it doesn't take the server 3 seconds to know that I've stopped moving

[Firon]

Which is exactly why you don't implement anything that is completely dependent on lag until after the server API is rebuilt

I'm not at all against moving interrupting spellcasting...
But I do think this change should have waited until it doesn't take the server 3 seconds to know that I've stopped moving

Except you have 2 blue arrows to tell you when your not moving...? Is it that hard to look @ those 2 arrows to see when your not moving?