We interrupt your current server woes to talk about casting

[WillRiker]

Uhn. You need to wait half of a second between letting go of the control stick and confirming the target of your spell, you will also not simply loose your spell to the cancelling effect because it doesn't lets you start casting while moving, so it's easy enough to adapt to this by simply doing what we all did (or at least I did) before action queuing came by, hitting the button until the ability goes off.

I admit this game is pretty fast but not as fast as that little action getting in the way of anything. Unless i'm wrong, I haven't done Ifrit or Moogle yet, so.

Also, before you say it, the 'brake' button is not lagless at all, it has the exact same lag letting go of the directional button, it does gives a better synchronization between server and client because the client assures the server of wtf is going on at the screen. Depending on what gets judged by the server as correct, you will either be 'lag-jumping' in other player's screens or you will get corrected in your own screen if you're suffering from heavy lag. It's not as much a panacea as it seems.

Disclaimer: My technical knowledge is very small, I could be wrong in all this, it's just suppositions

in terms of lag, or inertia, the face target button serves as a stopper. Basically it tells the server, "Yeah i know that you think the character is moving, but he isnt." It prevents spells getting halfway through the cast only to cancel as if you moved because you cast it too soon.

our point is that we shouldnt need to press a button for this. it should automatically happen when we let go of a movement button/toggle.

[Skies]

in terms of lag, or inertia, the face target button serves as a stopper. Basically it tells the server, "Yeah i know that you think the character is moving, but he isnt." It prevents spells getting halfway through the cast only to cancel as if you moved because you cast it too soon.

our point is that we shouldnt need to press a button for this. it should automatically happen when we let go of a movement button/toggle.

The thing is that Yoshi already explained that it won't at all get 'halfway through the cast only to cancel' because it will give you a "This ability cannot be performed at this time" error if you cast while the server thinks you're moving. That was in the cuar's translation right up there D: (unless i'm misreading, as always)

"The client side VFX (effects) and animations function asynchronously, but the server determines whether recasting is possible or not by the quickest client to server communication without waiting on the graphics.

However, as I mentioned previously in a separate thread, FFXIV is a server/client type of online game, so everything that you input is sent to the server and until the server processes the functions and delivers the result to the client, a physical time delay will occur depending on everyone’s network environment.
This is the same for FFXI, FFXIV, WoW, Rift, and SWTOR.

Compared to stand-alone games, this spec is something that is essential for online games, so please understand.
(For the tech saavy, I will go ahead and say that there is still some room for packet queue streamlining.)"



Can we get an estimate on how much room for packet queue streamlining there is? It's fine to say that FFXIV functions in the "same way" other mmos are, except that it's not. I do not experience the same delays on other games I do on this game, and it's not just me so my internet connection is not to blame.

I don't want to be "that guy" but even in SE's own interests, the amount of delay in this game is destroying the ability for players to have a viable reaction time to actions in the game compared to other MMOs utilizing these boss movement mechanics.

Is 2.0 going to "fix" this? I sincerely want to know because that's been my expectation, and I think it has been many other people's expectation as well. If it won't, please tell us, and tell us why specifically FFXIV will not be able to run the same type of server client interface as WoW with a massively longer delay in communication?

I cannot speak for others but I guarantee you this is pretty much my #1 problem and concern with FFXIV, as it is something that will impact the game no-matter what content you add to it. And while hearing that the game will never react to my commands as quickly as WoW will be a deep cut, I would rather hear it now than log in 2.0 expecting something different and being sorely disappointed.

A small explanation from a person who believes he is smarter than he is:
What he means to say is that there is only so much they can do for their lag, they can and will fix what is possible because the current system is in fact sub-par (and that is one of the big reasons behind 2.0 being a complete reconstruction, they need to rewrite the way the game does it's networking). However, not all lag is fixable due to the very nature of the internet itself.
Imagine as if they had a bottleneck at their servers for the data coming in and out. They can widen that, but if there is another bottleneck between your computer and their servers, nothing can be done on their side.

[Rydin]

A small explanation from a person who believes he is smarter than he is:
What he means to say is that there is only so much they can do for their lag, they can and will fix what is possible because the current system is in fact sub-par (and that is one of the big reasons behind 2.0 being a complete reconstruction, they need to rewrite the way the game does it's networking). However, not all lag is fixable due to the very nature of the internet itself.
Imagine as if they had a bottleneck at their servers for the data coming in and out. They can widen that, but if there is another bottleneck between your computer and their servers, nothing can be done on their side.

Which is exactly why you don't implement anything that is completely dependent on lag until after the server API is rebuilt

I'm not at all against moving interrupting spellcasting...
But I do think this change should have waited until it doesn't take the server 3 seconds to know that I've stopped moving

[Firon]

Which is exactly why you don't implement anything that is completely dependent on lag until after the server API is rebuilt

I'm not at all against moving interrupting spellcasting...
But I do think this change should have waited until it doesn't take the server 3 seconds to know that I've stopped moving

Except you have 2 blue arrows to tell you when your not moving...? Is it that hard to look @ those 2 arrows to see when your not moving?

[Rydin]

Except you have 2 blue arrows to tell you when your not moving...? Is it that hard to look @ those 2 arrows to see when your not moving?

or...
(and this is going to sound crazy)
Casting a spell instantly stops your movement???
You see what I did there? I'm a problem solver
(and let's be honest... that seems like it would take a lot less effort to implement)

[Kiara]

or...
(and this is going to sound crazy)
Casting a spell instantly stops your movement???
You see what I did there? I'm a problem solver
(and let's be honest... that seems like it would take a lot less effort to implement)

Hi Rydin (and Yoshida-san),

This is a great suggestion, and alternative to the problem.

Instead of making ALL players have to press an extra button (or type /facetarget) to be 100% safe to cast a Spell, to alleviate momentum / slight ancillary movement, you should build in a command on the game side that basically sets up:

* Start Casting Spell = Set Motion to 0 (ZERO), instantly.

So even if you might've had some momentum from stopping, or were worried about compensating for lag, if by *default* inherently in starting ANY Casting for a Spell, you're immediately stopping the Character and telling the engine that the Motion Value is Zero, that would alleviate the problem for ALL players immediately.

You remove the burden of this really clunky, antiquated method of having to manually Face Target / press an extra Button and/or Wait a second or so before casting.

Think about it this way:

With the changes that Moving will Cancel a Spell, when would you ever want to try Casting a Spell while moving? In other words, we wouldn't want to fail Casting because of movement.

Even with this change (forcing Motion to Zero for the Player automatically), the player can then choose to START MOVING again (after this happens), if they wanted to truly cancel casting a spell (or were being chased and started moving), etc.

I hope you consider something like this for a fix, if you can't get a better system in for 2.0. It just makes for a far more seamless experience.

Thanks!

[Riaayo]

A small explanation from a person who believes he is smarter than he is:
What he means to say is that there is only so much they can do for their lag, they can and will fix what is possible because the current system is in fact sub-par (and that is one of the big reasons behind 2.0 being a complete reconstruction, they need to rewrite the way the game does it's networking). However, not all lag is fixable due to the very nature of the internet itself.
Imagine as if they had a bottleneck at their servers for the data coming in and out. They can widen that, but if there is another bottleneck between your computer and their servers, nothing can be done on their side.

The problem is "there's only so much they can do" doesn't measure up with what other companies have done and proved possible. I want to know why FFXIV, or FFXIV 2.0 specifically, can't match WoW's speed. Is it because Blizzard has better servers (they have massive coffers after all), is it because FFXIV is transferring more data than WoW does? WoW certainly has more people connected to it than this game so unless SE's servers or their bandwidth is much lower, I don't see how it can be said it's due to so many people connecting.

My concern, to Yoshi-P specifically if he were to see my words, is that his wording right now sounds like even 2.0 will continue to have this long delay between my input and my character's actions. Does SE not feel like it can do better, or have you guys put this issue aside or given up on "fixing" it? Or are your words pertaining specifically to pre-2.0 and will 2.0 be faster? I am putting up with this delay now with the expectation it will not exist later. Dealing with the delay to dodge Ifrit's eruptions, as-is, is not acceptable for a finished game guys.

I have high hopes for this game, I have grown to adore it more and more with each patch you give us, and I have had increasing hope in and respect for the new team working on this game. But if this delay continues to be THIS bad post-2.0, I cannot guarantee you than any of the new content will keep me playing. Please do not give up on fixing this issue, if you have. If you have not and you know, or are trying to make 2.0 better in THIS regard, PLEASE say so specifically.