We interrupt your current server woes to talk about casting

[indira]

gotta love SE's ghetto windows movie maker style movies

[Rukkirii]

And here is the other /facetarget post from Yoshida that I promised. ^_^

You weren’t able to make it so what we see is an animation, but internally the character is turning around instantly?

I will go ahead and answer this for the animation team as well.
We’ve performed tests on everything, including the suggested method.

As I commented in my previous post, heavy focus has been placed on quick movements for the /facetarget command.

Taking into account continuous usage, there were cases where the character would stop and do a 180 without movement. Also, in the case that there is a delay between the internal line of sight check and the animation, the casting animation would begin mid-turn.

Furthermore, in the case of spells with a short casting time, graphics were affected drastically when continuously using /facetarget and instantly casting. After using /facetarget, in the case of moving mid-turn or using a weaponskill mid-turn animation, I am sure there would have been comments saying “My feet are sliding when I change direction…what is this? This isn’t FF!”
(The current FFXIV system does not separate upper and lower body animation movements.)

With all this said, there are things that we can and can’t do in regards to differences between the input and what is seen. There is also a difference in the priority between game functionality and graphical display. Where to draw the line is quite difficult since this is FINAL FANTASY, but this was my decision as it I felt the trade-offs were unacceptable.

I feel that visuals should continue to be one of the strongest assets of FFXIV going forward and I would really like you to continue to pay attention to stylish and cool visuals.

As a FINAL FANTASY, we have every intention of paying attention to this, but with your comment I will be sure to take this into account even more and it will be reflected in future updates and 2.0!

[Nakiamiie]

Furthermore, in the case of spells with a short casting time, graphics were affected drastically when continuously using /facetarget and instantly casting. After using /facetarget, in the case of moving mid-turn or using a weaponskill mid-turn animation, I am sure there would have been comments saying “My feet are sliding when I change direction…what is this? This isn’t FF!”
(The current FFXIV system does not separate upper and lower body animation movements.)

[...]

I feel that visuals should continue to be one of the strongest assets of FFXIV going forward and I would really like you to continue to pay attention to stylish and cool visuals.

As a FINAL FANTASY, we have every intention of paying attention to this, but with your comment I will be sure to take this into account even more and it will be reflected in future updates and 2.0!

You will fix this for 2.0, right? Right?
I think that visual is really important too. It would allow to do more things while walking without looking awkward (even emotes? ).

[WillRiker]

i wouldnt expect them to redo/reexamine this work once 2.0 is released. once implemented, its a safe bet that its staying.

After all, YoshiP did state that it was primarily done this way for PvP.

[Hulan]

For those wondering why it is that SE seemingly can't make their game as responsive or as fast as Blizzard or Trion, it may be worth mentioning the obvious again. That being, this is a game served from Japan. For better or worse, any problem that Blizzard has to deal with downstream is going to be compounded orders of magnitude worse for SE servers.

Yoshi-P is saying that they can do better than what they have right now, but light only travels so fast. FFXI handled it by fundamentally designing the game around a 2-3 second delay (long casting times and relatively slow movement obscured the fact that things you saw on your screen were actually 2-3 seconds off everyone else). For whatever reason, FFXIV was not.

[Riaayo]

For those wondering why it is that SE seemingly can't make their game as responsive or as fast as Blizzard or Trion, it may be worth mentioning the obvious again. That being, this is a game served from Japan. For better or worse, any problem that Blizzard has to deal with downstream is going to be compounded orders of magnitude worse for SE servers.

Yoshi-P is saying that they can do better than what they have right now, but light only travels so fast. FFXI handled it by fundamentally designing the game around a 2-3 second delay (long casting times and relatively slow movement obscured the fact that things you saw on your screen were actually 2-3 seconds off everyone else). For whatever reason, FFXIV was not.

FFXIV was not because no other game does it anymore, and the general MMO community is not looking for a game (nor use to one) so sluggish as XI was. The "distance" from Japan to the United States, etc, is not what causes this lag as much as people want to make it out to be; that's an excuse. Go watch any JP video and you will see they experience the same delays NA players do.

And honestly, if SE has launched this game for both Japan and NA / EU and this is that big of a problem, then SE needs to explore placing servers in other countries that will better service players in those countries. Excuses don't sell games.

Sorry if I sound rabid, I do appreciate ALL of the work the current team has put into this game. But for myself, and others, I am concerned all their hard work will be for nothing if this game can't pick up the pace with this server/client delay.

Edit: "Light only travels so fast." It travels at 299,792,458 meters per second. If SE's internet was light its server could be on the sun and still be an instant connection. It's certainly not light, but we're not exactly on 56k internet anymore either.

[Hulan]

To avoid sounding ignorant, I am aware that the physical distance (or even the network distance) is not the primary cause of the lag in FFXIV or even a major cause. But given SE's global servers policy (one I happen to agree with actually), SE will never be able to produce the same experience as a local server is capable of producing in terms of latency. Although on reflection, my original post perhaps came on a little strong. I was only trying to get across that no change is going to stretch that nanosecond of wire.

[SirOleas]

To avoid sounding ignorant, I am aware that the physical distance (or even the network distance) is not the primary cause of the lag in FFXIV or even a major cause. But given SE's global servers policy (one I happen to agree with actually), SE will never be able to produce the same experience as a local server are capable of producing in terms of latency. Although on reflection, my original post perhaps came on a little strong. I was only trying to get across that no change is going to stretch that nanosecond of wire.

That link was very informative. Thanks.

[Riaayo]

To avoid sounding ignorant, I am aware that the physical distance (or even the network distance) is not the primary cause of the lag in FFXIV or even a major cause. But given SE's global servers policy (one I happen to agree with actually), SE will never be able to produce the same experience as a local server is capable of producing in terms of latency. Although on reflection, my original post perhaps came on a little strong. I was only trying to get across that no change is going to stretch that nanosecond of wire.

Can you either link or possibly explain their global servers policy then? Unless you just mean the generalization of the fact their servers are not for specific regions.

As much as I like the fact our servers have all manner of people from all over the world, I don't know if personally that bonus is worth the cost in game performance... it is just not fun to not be able to react to things, and no form of fun PvP is going to exist in this game if that's the case. Laggy, slow, unresponsive PvP is just... bleh. It effectively makes you feel cheated out of your own reaction time and abilities, and forces you to try and adjust yourself to the lag (which some seem to consider part of the game, but I think it's only worth putting up with until 2.0).

Also, touche on the nerdy, it was indeed a very informative lecture (no sarcasm).

[Jinko]

For those wondering why it is that SE seemingly can't make their game as responsive or as fast as Blizzard or Trion, it may be worth mentioning the obvious again. That being, this is a game served from Japan. For better or worse, any problem that Blizzard has to deal with downstream is going to be compounded orders of magnitude worse for SE servers.

Yoshi-P is saying that they can do better than what they have right now, but light only travels so fast. FFXI handled it by fundamentally designing the game around a 2-3 second delay (long casting times and relatively slow movement obscured the fact that things you saw on your screen were actually 2-3 seconds off everyone else). For whatever reason, FFXIV was not.

Well even from Europe I am getting 300 ms latency, this isn't much, what the problem is currently is the server is too slow to process everything causing extra latency.
(for what its worth I can play WoW and LOTRO both with more than 300 ms of latency)

When we move to a better server there is no reason why this problem should exist any longer.

The .3 seconds you mentioned is the delay of movement packet delivery. (The explanation is filled with jargon and tech talk so I won’t write anymore than this.)

Hmmm seriously ??

I really think seeing as the 2.0 client has a working battle system they should disclose how the future battle system will work, especially in regards to animation lock.