MCH vs BRD

[Aebel]

So I'm a returning player, I stopped playing just after the release of stormblood due mostly to other obligations, and in Heavensward I played a Machinist. I liked the support style but I wasnt a fan of the Bards kit or aesthetics. I know they reworked Machinist at the launch of stormblood and that they lost a lot of that support ability (or I was told, didnt get much of a chance to play it) coming back now I'm just curious if they still lack the support power that the Bard still has.

[NobleWinter]

Bard and MCH both have the same Role Skills so they can refresh TP and MP to the party and also use Pallisade for extra physical defense on a single party member. Aside for those shared skills MCH has Dismantle which reduces the attack damage from a single enemy for 6 seconds. It's helpful for things like Raid Wide AoEs or Tank Buster's from bosses. MCH also has Hypercharge from their Turret which makes any enemy it hits more susceptible to damage by 6%. This is a Raid Buff that increases damage from everyone hitting the target. This is where MCH support ends. Bard can removed Debuffs and also increase healing received from a single Party member once every 45 seconds. Bards can also increase critical rate by 2% for the whole party or increase damage received by enemies by 3% due to their songs. Bards can also increase their parties direct hit rate too. They have a ton of support options and are favorable for low skill groups since their support skills are just a constant crutch. In a high end party with extremely skilled players a MCH will do more damage though if they line up their Hypercharge with other raid buffs and get the most out of all their skills.

[Selond3]

While everything Nobel said is true it is extremely hard for mch to out dps a bard of equal gear and skill. This mainly being because of mch's clunky and strict rotation. Machinist is also wild more dependent on wildfire and a good/bad ping on your side can be devastating to your dps.

[Hussain]

While everything Nobel said is true it is extremely hard for mch to out dps a bard of equal gear and skill. This mainly being because of mch's clunky and strict rotation. Machinist is also wild more dependent on wildfire and a good/bad ping on your side can be devastating to your dps.

this is false , Mch easily outdps Brd. if you can't do the rotation correctly that does not mean what you're saying is true.
I can say Sam doesn't outdps ninja cause I'm doing the rotation wrong
anyway although Brd falls behind Mch in personal dps but Brd raid dps covers for it. overall dps Brd>Mch / personal dps Mch>Brd
in terms of utility they both share tp and mp refresh and palisade which is a 20% physical CD for tanks
Mch has Hypercharge and dismantle
Brd has troubador , nature's minne , foe , battle voice and a perm 2% crit for the rest of your party
if you want to play the better job go Brd , if that doesn't matter to you then play whatever you're enjoying. It's the end of the expansion and most teams don't care about what's the most optimal job

[ForgottenScholar]

Also to add to the above all of the cross role abilities are being looked at for 5.0 so they may or may not be here by then. TP is being removed as a resource and tied to mp?. Main point im trying to make is all jobs will undergo a slight to moderate rework moving forward to allow for the 5.0 abilities without adding too many buttons to use for each job. To this end I would highly suggest you play what job you enjoy rather than what is good and maybe on the side use palace of the dead and heaven on high to lvl bard so at least you have a fallback on incase you dont like the way 5.0 mch has gone. It is definately getting a rework as it has been generally known as a clunky job with having to align lots of abilties and skills for your 10 second dps window every minute.

[Selond3]

[QUOTE=Hussain;4910005]this is false , Mch easily outdps Brd. if you can't do the rotation correctly that does not mean what you're saying is true.

Read the whole post. I said it is hard to out dps a brd because of the rotation not that it isnt possible. The rotation outside of wildfire is quite simple as is lining everything up for wildfire. However unlike brd, mch depends on you having a fairly strong internet and low ping because there is alot of double weaving during wildfire and even a single mistake will tank your dps. Does mch out dps brd in a one on one situation? Yes. Is it as easy easy for the mch? No.

[Hussain]

[QUOTE=Selond3;4911918]

this is false , Mch easily outdps Brd. if you can't do the rotation correctly that does not mean what you're saying is true.

Read the whole post. I said it is hard to out dps a brd because of the rotation not that it isnt possible. The rotation outside of wildfire is quite simple as is lining everything up for wildfire. However unlike brd, mch depends on you having a fairly strong internet and low ping because there is alot of double weaving during wildfire and even a single mistake will tank your dps. Does mch out dps brd in a one on one situation? Yes. Is it as easy easy for the mch? No.

again this is wrong "there is alot of double weaving during wildfire" after you put wf on , you only doube weave once.
yes mch needs to have a good ping but not very low ping , ~95 should be more than enough
players who say it's hard to execute mch rotation correctly is hard because it's clunky...etc actually confuse me , I look at it as they didn't practice enough

[Aeliott]

Brd personal DPS is only marginally below Mchs DPS. A very good Bard is almost universally better when taking into account everything else they offer. MCH having a higher skill floor means if someones using it correctly they'll be on average better than bard (in personal deeps anyway) but at the very top of the ceiling the best bard's don't care for being a couple of hundred DPS behind MCH when their support more than makes up for it, not to mention they're far more flexible for clunky fight timings and don't have to stand in place for flamethrower.

That said, if you prefer MCH there's no reason not to play it, especially if you're not fond of bard. The difference isn't gonna matter in most things, especially if you're returning at this point. The main feeling is that mch is more effort with nothing to show for it in comparison, unlike HW.

[Hussain]

Brd personal DPS is only marginally below Mchs DPS. A very good Bard is almost universally better when taking into account everything else they offer. MCH having a higher skill floor means if someones using it correctly they'll be on average better than bard (in personal deeps anyway) but at the very top of the ceiling the best bard's don't care for being a couple of hundred DPS behind MCH when their support more than makes up for it, not to mention they're far more flexible for clunky fight timings and don't have to stand in place for flamethrower.

That said, if you prefer MCH there's no reason not to play it, especially if you're not fond of bard. The difference isn't gonna matter in most things, especially if you're returning at this point. The main feeling is that mch is more effort with nothing to show for it in comparison, unlike HW.

a couple of hundreds behind isn't little
but yes overall dmg Brd is better because of their crazy raid dps , but that only matters when you're playing in a good group who make use of your buffs otherwise your rDPS would be lower
I was only commenting on the guy who said Brd with equal gear and skill can outdps Mch which is false
as Aeliott said tho it's the end of the expansion and if Brd isn't fun for you then play Mch tbh , rework is coming in 5.0

[Jonnycbad]

MCH's rotation #feelsbad. Poorly designed, things align weirdly. You lose your GB intentionally as part of your rotation and have to remember to toggle it back on or you lose out on a huge amount of damage while you do unbuffed shots. Plus, you also lose your turret for like 30 seconds after Overloading it and have to remember to re-summon it....

BRD's rotation is idiot proof, feels rewarding, and is very intuitive. Everything flows and makes sense and therefore damage is high and consistent.