Dungeons and iLvL pre 70 problems

[Yhisa]

hi i come to the forums to complain about a VERY serious issue regarding dungeons that causes toxic between the group and that is iLvL requirements to all 15-69 dungeons

The problem is once u hit max lvl you can join all dungeons from 15-69 naked meaning since your max lvl on 1 job you can lvl up an altetnative job on the same character and ignore all ilvl requirements for that second job your lvling

this causes a lot of stress in lower lvl dungeons as a healer and tank.... nothing worst then healing a paper tank and get blamed for not being a good healer when its legit the tank who is wearing lvl 50 gear in a lvl 65 and is nearly 100 ilvl below the requiement for the dungeon itself

this cause toxic behaviour within dungeons and onw of the reason why players do not tank or heal in dungeons due tothis added stress

please look into fixing lower lvl dungeons to prevent max lvl players ignore the ilvl requirements on other jobs..... or allow max lvl players be able to purchase gear with lvls up with them when lvling another job (not bonus exp just stats/ilvl levels up)

[Raldo]

The problem is once u hit max lvl you can join all dungeons from 15-69 naked meaning since your max lvl on 1 job you can lvl up an altetnative job on the same character and ignore all ilvl requirements for that second job your lvling

Maybe I'm misunderstanding you, but this is incorrect. No one gets to ignore the iLevel requirements because there are no iLevel requirements for leveling dungeons (i.e. any dungeon that isn't lv50, 60, or 70). This problem has nothing to do with max level players. Heck, I would argue that newer players are more likely to screw it up, particularly in the lv51 and lv61 dungeons since the iLevel jump from the previous leveling dungeon is huge.


With that said, I would definitely like to see them put minimum iLevel requirements on leveling dungeons. In the mean time, if someone is drastically under-geared, then vote kick them. I doubt this is a prolific problem.

[Doozer]

If someone is way below the recommended ilevel for the dungeon, ask them if they can equip better gear at the moment. If they won't, you have the option to leave, be kicked (like request to be kicked), or try to kick them (which I really only recommend if they're trolling and not just new or something). It's unfortunate, but it's usually still possible to heal someone who's undergeared.

There should be ilevel requirements for leveling dungeons, but I don't think "max level players" running low level dungeons naked is really that much of a prominent issue.

[Arrhin]

Um, well...I'm not even sure I'm comprehending what the OP is on about. But No you cannot ignore ilevel at all, ever...when queueing for a dungeon or roulette...ever. I mean, for sure you can ditch yer gear once yer in but sometimes it's done out of necessity, say when the high level healer pulls off the low level tank for like...breathing...other than that it's trolling.

[Rongway]

This problem has nothing to do with max level players. Heck, I would argue that newer players are more likely to screw it up, particularly in the lv51 and lv61 dungeons since the iLevel jump from the previous leveling dungeon is huge.

The problem is definitely not isolated to newer players. There are max level people leveling alt jobs who can't be bothered to keep their gear up. I've literally been told, "Nah I just want to get to 70 ASAP" after suggesting people put on some real gear, or even to do their job quests. Once I got matched with a BLM in The Vault (57+) who didn't have any of his job abilities after Blizzard III and was wearing iLv100-120 gear. He had several jobs at 70.

So to say as an absolute that this problem doesn't involve max level players is mistaken.


The extent of this problem will of course vary by data center and by the frequency that one queues without bringing friends along (exposing oneself to the possibility of ending up with a problematic party member), however, it is at the very least a problem that exists, and one that could be easily mitigated by just adding a min iLv requirement to each leveling dungeon.

[Raldo]

So to say as an absolute that this problem doesn't involve max level players is mistaken.

I don't disagree with anything you've said. I certainly did not mean to imply that max level players never do this. The OP indicated that being max level somehow conferred benefits that make someone more able to do this, and my point was that being max level is completely irrelevant to the topic at hand. Players of all levels are capable of doing this.

The only instance of this that I remember well was a tank in the 51 dungeon, wearing primarily lv44~49 pink "Aetherial" gear. The dude couldn't last 3 hits before dying. Did he have a level 70 job? I don't remember. It's not relevant. Some people are just ignorant and/or unhelpful.

This problem is roughly equivalent to people who go in with nearly-or-completely broken gear. Should we also suggest putting a repair NPC at the entrance of dungeons? It would be nice.

[Seraph522]

I don't disagree with anything you've said. I certainly did not mean to imply that max level players never do this. The OP indicated that being max level somehow conferred benefits that make someone more able to do this, and my point was that being max level is completely irrelevant to the topic at hand.

The only instance of this that I remember well was a tank in the 51 dungeon, wearing primarily lv44~49 pink "Aetherial" gear. The dude couldn't last 3 hits before dying. Did he have a level 70 job? I don't remember. It's not relevant. Some people are just ignorant and/or unhelpful.

This problem is roughly equivalent to people who go in with nearly-or-completely broken gear. Should we also suggest putting a repair NPC at the entrance of dungeons? It would be nice.

I think the main reason I've seen this discussion centering around alt jobs in the past has to do with the fact that the MSQ showers you with at least decent on-level gear, so when you're running through it for the first time, gear should only rarely be a problem, and sprouts that go into dungeons undergeared are often doing so deliberately. In contrast, when you're leveling your alt jobs, you don't have that influx of decent gear coming at you regularly (or at least, not at the same rate), and the MSQ has trained you to not bother seeking out good gear, so a lot of players leveling alt jobs will go in undergeared because they simply don't realize that gear makes a massive difference. Of course, anyone can enter leveling dungeons horrifically undergeared, which is the primary problem here and is absolutely something that needs to be fixed.

Once I got matched with a BLM in The Vault (57+) who didn't have any of his job abilities after Blizzard IV and was wearing iLv100-120 gear. He had several jobs at 70.

Alright, while I agree with your other points, this is a little confusing to me; the gear ilvl is bad, but Blizzard IV is the highest level ability BLMs will have access to in The Vault, as it level syncs you down to 58. Did you mean Blizzard III?

[HyoMinPark]

Um, well...I'm not even sure I'm comprehending what the OP is on about. But No you cannot ignore ilevel at all, ever...when queueing for a dungeon or roulette...ever. I mean, for sure you can ditch yer gear once yer in but sometimes it's done out of necessity, say when the high level healer pulls off the low level tank for like...breathing...other than that it's trolling.

This only applies for level 50, level 60, and level 70 dungeons. All ARR, HW, and SB leveling dungeons (e.g., level 15~47, level 51~59, and level 61~69) don't have item level requirements, so you literally can queue into Castrum Abania (level 69 dungeon) as a level 69/70 player with just your weapon equipped (you don't even need a job stone on).

It becomes an issue because you get players in Sirensong Sea (level 61 dungeon) with i200 HW artifact gear on (the gear given to you in the SB MSQ is HQ i255 gear, so you're already 55 item levels below that). The game lets them do it, despite how much of a hinderance it is.

Leveling dungeons honestly need item level requirements. And I think something should also be done about NQ White gear, because as you level they get worse and worse.

[Rongway]

Alright, while I agree with your other points, this is a little confusing to me; the gear ilvl is bad, but Blizzard IV is the highest level ability BLMs will have access to in The Vault, as it level syncs you down to 58. Did you mean Blizzard III?

I did mean Blizzard III, sorry. No Thunder III, Flare, or Heavensward abilities. Post edited.

[Hasrat]

I'm under the impression that one of the things really holding this feature back is the fact that a chunk of the quest gear you get given actually comes from side quests. MSQ doesn't hook you up with a complete set, so setting a minimum that isn't an inconvenience becomes troublesome.

Don't get me wrong, it'd be pretty easy to just pick a decently average number and roll with it. But, the fact that they haven't suggests, to me, that they don't really want to set it to anything that might cause a player to flounder around trying to scrounge up the gear.

One solution would be to remove all the gear rewards and just condense it all down into a singular coffer of some appropriate ilvl set. Something tells me they don't really want to remove the gear rewards from the side quests, as it serves as some added incentive to learn about the area you're in.

Another option, which would do little for ARR dungeons, would be to at least set the minimum to whatever the previous minimum was. You need an ilvl of 90 to do Steps of Faith prior to HW, so everything from Dusk Vigil onwards should be set to ilvl90. If you really wanted to be clever, you could take just the gear rewarded from MSQ and calculate the ilvl you could achieve from that, with the ilvl 90 gear for everything the MSQ doesn't reward.
The minimums would be incredibly low, quite likely not truly solving much, but they would still be enforcing a minimum, while still satisfying the dev desire to just let the player roll through without stopping and shopping.