Need to address the Eureka in the room.

[Kalise]

If SE listen to feedback, then future Eureka content could actually work.

Most of the issues that turn people away from the place are pretty easily fixed. It's just a matter of will they bother to fix them? Will they listen to feedback?

That said, I'm still very confused why they don't just... You know... Make Overworld not suck... Since that's all Eureka is. Overworld. But instanced

Boggles my mind that they didn't just have a level 70 zone with all the bells and whistles that make Eureka "Fun" (I.e. Cross-Server play, powerful NM's, some actual worthwhile rewards from doing FATEs...) but without all the unnecessary garbage that sucks all the fun right out of it (Random independent leveling system that serves no positive use, damage and health scaling on enemies jacked up to 11 mimicking DS2's worst DLC, no actual rewards through non-FATE based means... FATEs having terrible spawn rates outside of farming mobs for ages to force them... Oh, and Light Farming because who doesn't love that /s)

But I dunno... I guess we'll see how things pan out. Eureka as a concept isn't bad, it's essentially just having an Overworld that's actually relevant, which is actually really enjoyable when done right (Guild Wars 2 had some pretty great overworld content both for PvE and PvP. As did Warhammer Online. Rift too, but then again, I'm a sucker for puzzles... Both jump and otherwise). It's just a matter of, will they learn from this and improve? Or will they just copy/paste Eureka as is post nerfs and call it a success?

[Bright-Flower]

SNIP

Yeah I think there's room to improve on Eureka.

I kind of wish there was more actual plot too. The Eureka story drags its heels a looooooooot. Feels like it would have normally been like one main zone worth of plot stretched into 4 + BA.

The elemental leveling system was just there for a grind to pad things out. It may have served a purpose if like in POTD you could level other jobs in it or something, but no.

The magia board sounded neat in theory but in practice it's just 'spin the wheel to the weakness of what you're hitting. Or maybe, if you're tanking or prioritizing survival over dps, flip it to the monster's own element. There's rarely any need to put thought into it. Sure a couple NMs here and there may have adds of a different element so you would swap, kill adds, then swap back but that's about as deep as it goes. It was ultimately disappointing and shallow. And even if you grind/buy the items for the two extra magecite it wouldn't really do much to make you think about where to put your elements.

The main thing though I think they need to do is diversify things. Everything comes down to chaining mobs. Chaining mobs for exp, chaining mobs to spawn NMs, chaining mobs for lockboxes, chaining mobs for light, with only NMs themselves to punctuate things. Oh and bunny fates I guess. They need to add more to do, add more sources of crystals etc.

One thing I did like though was a lot of the grind being front loaded. Once you get your first relic in a zone, getting the rest becomes easier. Granted, there's still a significant time sink, especially if you're unlucky with Pazuzu etc spawns, but still, you have a headstart on the next one which is interesting.

[Physic]

Yeah I think there's room to improve on Eureka.

I kind of wish there was more actual plot too. The Eureka story drags its heels a looooooooot. Feels like it would have normally been like one main zone worth of plot stretched into 4 + BA.

The elemental leveling system was just there for a grind to pad things out. It may have served a purpose if like in POTD you could level other jobs in it or something, but no.

The magia board sounded neat in theory but in practice it's just 'spin the wheel to the weakness of what you're hitting. Or maybe, if you're tanking or prioritizing survival over dps, flip it to the monster's own element. There's rarely any need to put thought into it. Sure a couple NMs here and there may have adds of a different element so you would swap, kill adds, then swap back but that's about as deep as it goes. It was ultimately disappointing and shallow. And even if you grind/buy the items for the two extra magecite it wouldn't really do much to make you think about where to put your elements.

The main thing though I think they need to do is diversify things. Everything comes down to chaining mobs. Chaining mobs for exp, chaining mobs to spawn NMs, chaining mobs for lockboxes, chaining mobs for light, with only NMs themselves to punctuate things. Oh and bunny fates I guess. They need to add more to do, add more sources of crystals etc.

One thing I did like though was a lot of the grind being front loaded. Once you get your first relic in a zone, getting the rest becomes easier. Granted, there's still a significant time sink, especially if you're unlucky with Pazuzu etc spawns, but still, you have a headstart on the next one which is interesting.

the e level's main purpose is to create a progression system that gives players benefit to killing monsters and progression into the area. It, ir something like it, is necessary. Other wise there is no reason to interact with most of the enemies in the area. Knowing what to kill, and when and how to do it effeciently is a big part of interacting with the enemies of the area.

The elemental wheel, ties mostly into choosing your enemies and handling a long term resource, as well as an extra layer of progression. It actually ties into what you fight, and how you choose to deal with enemies. Mutation is a big part of it. get more exp/drops, but have to deal with more elemental shifts. Overall, its partially aesthetic, they wanted eureka to be a lot about elements.

and yeah defeating monsters has to be the meat of open world type content. There needs to be something people can do, in small to medium size groups, and 95% of your charachter is designed to be killing monsters, so most of that will involve killing stuff.

[Reynhart]

the e level's main purpose is to create a progression system that gives players benefit to killing monsters and progression into the area. It, ir something like it, is necessary. Other wise there is no reason to interact with most of the enemies in the area. Knowing what to kill, and when and how to do it effeciently is a big part of interacting with the enemies of the area.

To build on that, the elvl is also the only progression system only tied to the character, meaning that you could swap job for any situation and not have to redo the same progression, giving far more flexibility. On top of that, it diminishes the effect of ilvl, allowing any player that want to join to not be discriminated by their gear.
It also makes roaming the zone a very different experience depending on your level, giving a much stronger sense of exploration, as opposed to the standard open-world where you're either already overpowered, or you don't really come back to the zone for important stuff once monsters are no longer a threat.

And finally, a new progression system allowed to create the concept of "losing your progression" with the death penatly, which gave birth to a far more social environnement than a standard open-world, where no one would really run half the map to raise you, invite you regardless of your level or job, or escort you during complicated paths.

You don't feel like you're progressing when you go from fighting level 1 enemies who hit like a truck and take a million years to kill to fighting level 60 enemies who hit like a truck and take a million years to kill.

So, you didn't feel a progression between hiding or hugging the walls each time you enter a new zone and killing mobs by pack for spawning NM when you reached capped level for that same zone ?

Oh, and I don't know what zone you played in, but at no point an equal level mob hits you like a truck or take a million years to kill. But using real data would probably sound much less dramatic.

To say nothing about how part of the draw of Eureka is supposed to be how "Dangerous" it is to travel through, yet the elemental levels means that when you're at level cap for the zone, 90% of it ignores you.

You realize that's it's exactly a testament of your character's progression, the thing you claim does not exist ?

[Kalise]

So, you didn't feel a progression between hiding or hugging the walls each time you enter a new zone and killing mobs by pack for spawning NM when you reached capped level for that same zone ?

No not really.

Primarily because I was incentivised to grind out levels in lower level zones until at a level where Aetherytes and Mounts become available in the next zone.

Since there's literally no draw to actually going into a new zone at minimum level to not be able to do basically anything, especially when the "Progression" is merely a matter of "Become a nublet again"

Oh, and I don't know what zone you played in, but at no point an equal level mob hits you like a truck or take a million years to kill. But using real data would probably sound much less dramatic.

Taking real data:

Playing as my WAR and doing level 20-21 enemies in Anemos at level 20: Takes about 1-1.5 minutes per kill (Basically, I have Inner Release up for every kill 1v1)

Also, having to also use Tank stance for self healing because taking so much damage.

With full 5 magia.

Okay, so maybe I try fighting some level 18 things as a level 20 SMN/RDM? Takes about a full trance/trance and a half or a full melee combo (Including generating the 80 both mana). Also, many mobs do burst damage that requires self healing/potion usage or you die 1v1. At a 2 level advantage.

Other zones, there's even less reason to actually fight things on level, because it's better to just go to Anemos and find a party for challenge logs. So it's merely the

You realize that's it's exactly a testament of your character's progression, the thing you claim does not exist ?

It's not really progression if it's merely "Get back to where you were before you 'Progressed' in the first place".

Getting to level 70 I have progression in the fact that I gain better gear, more stats, more skills, traits. Even if I continue fighting on level enemies throughout that time. The progression isn't "Well, if you go back to Middle La Noscea you can beat up level 3 sheep!!!!!"

[Physic]

If SE listen to feedback, then future Eureka content could actually work.

Most of the issues that turn people away from the place are pretty easily fixed. It's just a matter of will they bother to fix them? Will they listen to feedback?

That said, I'm still very confused why they don't just... You know... Make Overworld not suck... Since that's all Eureka is. Overworld. But instanced

Boggles my mind that they didn't just have a level 70 zone with all the bells and whistles that make Eureka "Fun" (I.e. Cross-Server play, powerful NM's, some actual worthwhile rewards from doing FATEs...) but without all the unnecessary garbage that sucks all the fun right out of it (Random independent leveling system that serves no positive use, damage and health scaling on enemies jacked up to 11 mimicking DS2's worst DLC, no actual rewards through non-FATE based means... FATEs having terrible spawn rates outside of farming mobs for ages to force them... Oh, and Light Farming because who doesn't love that /s)

But I dunno... I guess we'll see how things pan out. Eureka as a concept isn't bad, it's essentially just having an Overworld that's actually relevant, which is actually really enjoyable when done right (Guild Wars 2 had some pretty great overworld content both for PvE and PvP. As did Warhammer Online. Rift too, but then again, I'm a sucker for puzzles... Both jump and otherwise). It's just a matter of, will they learn from this and improve? Or will they just copy/paste Eureka as is post nerfs and call it a success?

the overworld is designed to be a place for people in one server to do quests, gather, and travel. Eureka is a megaserver for people who want a more open world game.

they are at cross purposes.

the overworld could never have a chance of competing with a eureka like place unless it is a crossworld instance, and some altered rules/mechanics which is basically the type of content eureka is.

[Kalise]

the overworld is designed to be a place for people in one server to do quests, gather, and travel. Eureka is a megaserver for people who want a more open world game.

These things are not mutually exclusive.

You can easily have multi-server zones. Many other games have been doing so for YEARS.

To say nothing about how certain zones are going to waste, such as The Lochs, which barely anyone actually goes to outside the handful of MSQ that are involved there and the occasional gatherer going to grab Unspoiled/Ephemeral nodes.

Since, it is a zone designed for level 69 players which means it has limited use for actual leveling (Especially given how garbage overworld is for leveling compared to dungeons, deep or no)

There's no real reason that they need a Eureka style end-game zone to be a duty. To say nothing about actually improving overworlds (More so than sticking the band-aid of Twist of Fate buffs to make people give a damn about FATEs for half a second...)

To say nothing about how beneficial making all zones cross-server could be. Given that with quests being independent (MSQ's and Job Quests put you into solo duties rather than killing overworld stuff), gathering is independent (Unlike other games where there is competition for harvesting) and zones are pretty barren outside of expansion launch surges.

Even more so when you consider the datacentre changes that are coming.

the e level's main purpose is to create a progression system that gives players benefit to killing monsters and progression into the area.

Except it fails horribly at that.

You don't feel like you're progressing when you go from fighting level 1 enemies who hit like a truck and take a million years to kill to fighting level 60 enemies who hit like a truck and take a million years to kill.

There is no actual progression from leveling. All the progression comes from the Quests. Sure, you can argue that leveling does open access to quests, but that's a bit of a cop-out.

To say nothing about how part of the draw of Eureka is supposed to be how "Dangerous" it is to travel through, yet the elemental levels means that when you're at level cap for the zone, 90% of it ignores you.

Meanwhile, there's plenty of ways to add reasons to kill enemies. Such as:

* Challenge Logs
* Chain bonuses that don't suck
* Hunts
* Quests
* Crystals that are needed to progress your item upgrades
* Leves
* The fact that enemies are supposed to be dangerous so you might need to kill some to get through an area (Such as how the quests take you to places that have enemies around. Only currently those enemies are higher level than the quest and so are impossible to kill solo due to the stupid balancing...)

I mean, honestly, who tf kills enemies for Elemental Experience outside like Sprites for level 59-60 refarming?

Most of the killing of enemies is in the form of just doing the 60 kills for Challenge Log each week (+40 Ashkin +20 Sprites) and some Light/Logos farming when getting to that point. Due to, much like the current overworld, EXP gains from individual kills sucks and chain bonus multipliers barely does anything (200 times 0 is still 0...)

[Astrus]

Hello, I'm Astrus and i hated Eureka.
(Hello Astrus!)

Yes the game can perfectly survive having content like Eureka in 5.X so long as it's kept optional content.
The Feast didn't kill the game, Rival Wings didn't kill the game, Gold Saucer didn't kill the game, Diadem didn't kill the game, Eureka didn't kill the game and what we'll get in 5.X won't kill the game either unless they start making participation in it mandatory, then we can have this discussion.

[Shurrikhan]

I'd rather they learn their lessons, revamp the first 4, and make the final 2.

If they don't, though, I'd rather pretend none of them were ever made, though I might still want to see revamps for the 4 we have just for the initial novelty of them (especially if finally done at least kind of right).