Need some questions cleared up regarding healing in FFXIV

[AndroidPuka]

So, I mostly play DPS in this game because I'm not comfortable enough to do anything with healing or tanking in it yet. I've tinkered with them in the past though so I know a little bit on how they work. I used to play other games in a far more hardcore manner, and kind of "retired" here to get the hell out of that scene simply because of how toxic people can get in both PVE and PVP.

That all being said, I ended up bringing my boyfriend with me. He had played the trial for some time and fell in love with WHM, and even though this was kind of his first MMO he ended up sticking with it once I bought him the full game. We're currently working on his reaction times and general fight mechanics, but all in all he's a decent healer and has only a couple "bad habits".

Or so I thought.

I remember back in the day when Cleric Stance was a thing (I'm ignoring the presence of the cooldown at the moment because it's kind of weird to me for some reason lol), but outside of that I don't see healers hitting things now. I did some research and found some intense conflicting opinions on healers damaging things in dungeons or anything of the matter, but a friend of mine that has played this game since it launched swears up and down that healers have to hit things or they're all around useless. I read through the passives and all that and I can't find anything that would point out to that being a good thing (outside of applying Heavy), and I don't know how that hurts or helps the MP later on because I don't play a healer. Now, when I've seen them hitting things, I've been noticing some really low damage, so I'm assuming healers are just supposed to...heal, and reserve the MP for that alone unless they're just that bored. I need this clarified though, in case I'm missing something and I don't want my poor man to get kicked from groups or anything because he does seem to love dungeoning. Has anyone even tracked how much damage the healers can do to see if it actually matters as much as some assume?

Secondly, last night in one of his groups (he was solo queuing), someone told him not to directly heal any DPS outside of tossing them a regen here and there and to only direct heal the tank. We were both beyond confused at the idea. He hasn't really had anyone die on him yet, but we're wondering if this person was trying to give advice for him later in the game. If so, that's not really what I've been seeing people doing in trials and anything else I've been doing. The friend that I spoke to about the healer doing damage agreed with that person, so now I have no idea what to think on it.

Can I get someone to clear all of this up with some proof to back it up? Like some up to date examples in video or text format? I want to help him as much as possible by figuring this out and explaining it to him.

[Risvertasashi]

1. Well you've just opened a can of worms. This thread might get a bit dramatic. I'll try to stay as neutral as I can but it's like this: To maximize your group contribution, as a healer you need to DPS too. No, healers that don't DPS aren't literally useless. Heals are still needed and that's a healer's first function. But the group contribution is a lot less than it could be. And as a more practical matter, DPSing as a healer means less people will resent said healer getting by on minimal effort.

Also of note, DPS isn't a go all out or do nothing thing. You (hypothetical you; your BF really) can start where you're comfortable. Toss out a few DoTs. Work up from there.

Now as for how much damage we healers can do? Often - especially in a dungeon where AoE gets to shine - I can top the charts. The potential of DPS and even some tanks (like Warrior) is higher, but if they aren't on the ball - and in the Duty Finder, fairly often they aren't - I'll be outdamaging them on healer. Healer DPS is much weaker on a single target, though, so a DPS doing even half their potential will usually outdamage a healer going all out. But in the DF, a fair number of DPS do even less than that.

2. That's appreciable advice. Healing is a lot about knowing what's coming and in dungeons, there's not a lot of incoming damage to plan for. So regen will usually cover it. You might need more than regen if a big party-wide boss hit is coming but again in dungeons, that's not really a thing. You might need more than regen if they're constantly eating avoidable damage. If they're not, regen is good enough, or even waiting for the next assize. Healing doesn't need to be rushed.

That said if no one died, it's fine if he's more comfortable with immediate heals. When he's ready to optimize, then it's something to think about.



I can't give you proof on DPS potential because parsing is one of those 'technically not allowed' things. But if you hop over to fflogs, you can look up some dungeons there and see how capable healers are.

edit: I'm at work so I can't check the video myself, but take a look at this guide and see if it's maybe helpful? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=egcQH6YUCm4

[Kalise]

I don't know how that hurts or helps the MP later on because I don't play a healer. Now, when I've seen them hitting things, I've been noticing some really low damage, so I'm assuming healers are just supposed to...heal, and reserve the MP for that alone unless they're just that bored.

MP is not a very big concern.

Between natural tools that healers have for MP regen and skills like Refresh, healers aren't gasping for MP. To the point where Piety isn't a particularly highly prioritized stat either (The stat that gives Healers better MP regen)

As such, it's better to be DPSing than doing nothing. Since killing things faster > waiting around like a lemon. Even if Healer DPS isn't particularly high, it's still more than 0.

Secondly, last night in one of his groups (he was solo queuing), someone told him not to directly heal any DPS outside of tossing them a regen here and there and to only direct heal the tank.

Guy's an idiot.

Make sure people are alive > all else.

Technically, what he's trying to convey though, is that in end game content where people are trying to min/max as best as possible, Healers will try to use only oGCD healing skills where possible (Outside the occasional Adlo/Regen/Aspected) to have more time to spend casting DPS skills.

But this only really works when 1) You're at a skill level where people are doing mechanics (Nigh) flawlessly. 2) You have co-ordination with your co-healer so you don't waste CD's healing the same person. 3) You actually care about going super min/max to push out a few more DPS over a fight by casting a handful more Stones.

As far as data goes, here's an example of Raid DPS outputs:

While Healer output isn't particularly high, at about 50% that of a DPS class, it's still something.

[Izsha]

Obviously the 1st priority is to keep your party alive.

That said, the fundamental reason this 'debate' exists is because healers are overpowered in healing. Do you find yourself spamming cure 1/2 as fast as you possibly can to keep a tank alive and if you stop for even a moment they instantly die? Nope. Tanks arent that flimsy, monsters dont deal that much damage, and your heals are very strong.

Once you pile on "efficient" healing like using more regens and shields and become comfortable letting the party not be at 100%hp all the time, you find even more time. Example: aoe damage is coming, damage goes out, you cast a single medica II for some heal and gives everyone a regen. Now they are at 50%. Many healers span medica I or C3 now until everyone is topped off. But an efficient healer know that there is no more aoe damage coming so they just let the regen from medica II slowly cure them while they cast dps spells. Instead of cure II spam the tank for auto attacks, give them a regen, eye for an eye, let fairy do the work and cure with an OGCD skill if their hp gets to low. While casting dps soells.

It's not the tool tips that tell you to deal damage. It's how little healing the game actually needs you to do. The thought process is generally:

* if you are spending every moment healing you are not healing efficiently and probably overcuring a ton which just generates enmity and wastes mp for nothing
*if you are not spending all your time healing, why are you twiddling your thumbs when you could cast dps spells.

Would you be annoyed at a pld that just cast flash and used mitigation cooldowns for the entire fight? They are still doing their "tank" job by keeping threat and mitigating damage. Would you be annoyed at a healer that just cast some cures then twiddle their thumbs half the time?

Welcome the the tank and healer dps debates. Running here on the forums 24/7, 365.

[Misutoraru]

1. there are no straight answer to it, and it never end well in forum.
How long someone play have little to do with the debate.
I personally queue dungeon with 3 pub, so I usually have the minimum expectation, i.e. tank hold aggro, dps do rotation not just spamming 1 skill, and heal keep everyone alive. As a heal the priority is always keep everyone alive, damage can come next. Heal dashing out damage is always welcome since it help clearing content faster, everysingle dmg help. However, Priority should still be keeping everyone alive. I would suggest once you are familiar with dungeon and boss mechanic, spend little time observe how the tank and two dps do, like if they are well equipped, know the mechanics well, which give you alot of free time then could try giving out dmg, but if tank is always at the edge of losing half the HP bar, dps keep getting hit, i would play safe and restrain from casting dmg other than DOT

[PyurBlue]

Now, when I've seen them hitting things, I've been noticing some really low damage, so I'm assuming healers are just supposed to...heal, and reserve the MP for that alone unless they're just that bored. I need this clarified though, in case I'm missing something and I don't want my poor man to get kicked from groups or anything because he does seem to love dungeoning. Has anyone even tracked how much damage the healers can do to see if it actually matters as much as some assume?

Healer AoE damage at the level cap is massive, it can often eclipse tanks and sometimes DPS. Single target damage is less but not insignificant. If you want numbers, just look up fflogs to see actual numbers from hundreds of dungeon and raid runs. MP needs to be watched while you're attacking, but all of the healers have enough of it to both damage and heal.

That said, healing comes first and dealing big damage as a healer requires that you can keep the party alive long enough to deal damage. If the healer isn't comfortable with DPSing, then focusing on healing is fine. Just try to squeeze in some DPS practice where you can. WHM in particular can be very strong with the spell Holy (~level 45) in dungeons. This is not just because of its damage, but because it applies stun. Any stunned enemies can't deal damage and that makes it a good defensive tool as well as an offensive one. Later on WHM's get Assize (~level 55) which is similar, but instead of stunning enemies it heals everyone around the caster.

Secondly, last night in one of his groups (he was solo queuing), someone told him not to directly heal any DPS outside of tossing them a regen here and there and to only direct heal the tank. We were both beyond confused at the idea. He hasn't really had anyone die on him yet, but we're wondering if this person was trying to give advice for him later in the game. If so, that's not really what I've been seeing people doing in trials and anything else I've been doing. The friend that I spoke to about the healer doing damage agreed with that person, so now I have no idea what to think on it.

This person is giving good advice, but it's situational. Usually DPS won't take as much damage as the tank and might only need occasional heals. HoT's are very efficient in that case because one cast can potentially cover multiple instances of minor damage. This actually goes for healing tanks as well since they don't need to be at 100% HP all the time, but keeping HP high is fine for a new healer. There will be times when people need direct healing though, either because they make mistakes, or because they are targeted by a heavy hitting attack. Your boyfriend just needs to keep practicing until he gains a sense of when it's appropriate to use each spell.

[Ghishlain]

As a healer, your priority is:

1. Ensure the party can keep fighting. A dead player means a 0DPS player. Your role as a healer is to prevent that from happening to the best of your ability.
2. Once you're at a level of comfort with the party's health, supplement your party's total DPS via DoTs and direct damage spells.

Your ability to perform #2 is directly tied into #1. If you only need to dedicate 20% of your time to #1, then you can spend 80% of your time on #2.

However, #1 is then a function of the content your participating in and the skill / equipment level of each player in that content, as well as the healer's own skill / equipment / comfort.

If you're in a Savage raid scenario, you'll probably need to spend more time healing versus 8-man non-EX trials or 4-man dungeon content. Likewise, if an unskilled player is getting clipped / killed by every AoE known in existence, you'll also need to spend time babysitting their health bar, which means less time you can dedicate for #2.

A person who can't perform #2 at more than 5% isn't useless if they're spending 95% of their time doing #1. However, a person who only needs to spends 5% of the time doing #1 and not doing anything for #2 can be considered a detriment to the party as the healer has a lot of idle time that they can spend DPS spells on instead of jumping around or using /playdead and /dance emotes.

There is also no cut and dry answer regarding what is "standard" for healing because your ability to output good healer DPS is always about total party awareness and skill. In the current 24-man content, I've done 2.5K+ DPS easily as a a healer because everyone in the raid was play properly, or there were very few mistakes that needed to be correct. Then the very next day I've only done 1K-1.5K DPS on a healer because I have to babysit two different parties in the exact same piece of content due to low skill level from the other players.

In the end, I feel as long as it's seen that you're utilizing your GCDs for the best possible choices for the content, no one will begrudge your skill regardless of how high or low your DPS is as a healer.

[Brightamethyst]

DPSing vs just healing:
Healing in this game is incredibly strong and incoming damage is usually pretty predictable. In any normal dungeon or trial the amount of time spent actually healing is fairly low. People say you should DPS not because the damage itself is so important (though every bit helps), but because anything is better than standing around doing nothing for 80% of the dungeon, and DPS is the only real alternative.

That said, no one is forcing you to go crazy with DPS every second you're not healing. Everyone has a comfort zone and if yours does less DPS than average, so be it. That's not bad or wrong.

Only heal the tank and just regen the DPS:
While everything is situational, that often actually good advice. Obviously you shouldn't ignore the DPS completely if they're taking damage or a big AoE is incoming or something, but if a DPS takes a stray hit you probably don't need to focus on them. Regen is perfect for things like that.

[LazyTitan87]

As many have said and will say, you have a lot of downtime if you choose to only heal in casual DF content. I play with heavy dps, though there are times where I worry. DF Expert yesterday as an example, I was the only one who was AoEing, and as an AST, Gravity can eat my mana outside of Lightspeed and Lucid. It came to the point where outside of those, I was using a mix of break and malefic to keep in the black MP-wise until I had my cooldowns back up. However, this isn't always the case.

You should dps, not only for your sake, but for your party's sake. Just don't let anyone die and you'll be fine.

[Sida]

I call going boom as WHM as "pre-emptive healing". The faster the things die, the less damage done to heal. And as others here have said, healer damage is not insignificant, it is quite possible to make more damage than some less on the point dpsers.

What I tend to advice to new healers on low end dungeons, if I'm tanking, is to wait my health bar has enough room for their whole heal fit in. Not heal right away I get a booboo, but let me sink somewhere about 75% of health (one quarter empty). See that there's still at least pixel empty when they have healed me. (That's just for learning to see the whole heal fit) When they get that tuned, see how much "do nothing" time that gives them. Then start casting, maybe the Aero at first, then tossing stones if they feel they can do it. This of course also requires a tank who's on top of their mitigation, not all starting ones do. Of course there will be times when the tank should be fully healed in speedy manner and learning those too comes with time.

But the point here is, no need to learn all at once. First try and see how little healing is actually necessary, then build up from there with other things to do with the free time. I've met many new healers who chain cast heal as soon as I'm hit which leads most of the heal vaporizing over my health limit, and them running out of mana, then panicking when they feel they don't have time to fix it. The mana and time is there, just need to learn the rhytm. ^-^ Also your mention of Heavy, in dungeon content it's largely irrelevant. It's mainly useful, if any, for low level solo content where keeping the mob from hitting you has some merit.