Akatsuki?

[Elexia]

I get your point, but I'm not sure I see how it is any different from XIs system where you could sub Summoner and summon any avatar you had access to. If we can use the summoner powers on say ARC or CNJ, they will be weaker than if you were SMN, just like in XI.

This depends on the initial balance and design though, since SMN's balance in XI was purely built around perp cost (near impossible to tone down as a subjob) and the fact the avatars themselves leveled as you did. It depends on how they made the pet system, but given they want classes to be open ended, it's not too likely they'll create them in the same manner compared to what they could do if they create it as a job that branches off the Shepard class for example, since it is pretty basic to give everyone some type of pet nowadays.

Especially since they're so far using big name summons in the series as Primals (Leviathan, Ifrit, Titan, Garuda etc.) and so far only lesser avatars in the likes of Carbuncle (which was mostly a reflect whore for all intents and purposes) it would make sense that cross-class it won't take the same style strength hit as it did in XI, much like atm your class traits boosts skills that cross-classing won't get, i.e boosted invigorate so they still have great use cross-class, just even better if used by the native class. This is why I would see it as a problem as a class rather than Job, since they'll have to balance it around that fact rather than pulling out all the stops being a specialist.

[TheFatHousecat]

From Reinheart's thread, translated from a Gamewatch interview in October 2011:

For post New FFXIV summoning system we have 2 ideas. One is pet type where you can summon monsters or spirits, and for calling out banshin/primal we are thinking of something else. To actually call summon 1 player community can have the right/key to hold and and in 2 weeks having everyone charge their summoning gauge and once summoning it goes back to nature. Summoning with a MMO feel.

[Zetsumei_Tsunarashi]

If I'm understanding that, you first have to get an item. Once you've had the item in your possession for two weeks, then you can summon it. There's nothing to prevent you from not summoning though.

Unless they mean after two weeks the key item goes away, in which case, you could just get it again when the two weeks is up.

[TheFatHousecat]

If I'm understanding that, you first have to get an item. Once you've had the item in your possession for two weeks, then you can summon it. There's nothing to prevent you from not summoning though.

Unless they mean after two weeks the key item goes away, in which case, you could just get it again when the two weeks is up.

It's probably going to have a cooldown in order to use it and a time limit to use the card before it goes away completely; either way it's not going to be something that's guaranteed for your Free Company so I'd hope the people who got the cards used them wisely before they lost the opportunity to use them at all. Also:

編：　どういうシチュエーションで蛮神を呼ぶことを想定していますか？
吉田氏：　 好きなときで良いと思います。自分たちのフリーカンパニーでは倒せないボスを一撃必殺で「イ フリートさんやっちゃってください」という場合もあれば、PvPエリアでさんざん辛酸をなめているヘビープレーヤー集団のフリーカンパニーを「一撃でなぎ 倒してやってください」といった使い方です。ありとあらゆるものを超越していて良いと。ただし1回しか使えず、次またいずこかに現われる「イフリート」を 倒さなければならないですし、それが自分たちに回ってくるとは限らない。世界のどこかで「イフリート」が召喚されたら全ゾーンの天候が変わり、だれかが 「イフリート」を呼んだとわかる。それが「FF」がMMORPGになるという意味なのかなと僕は考えています。かなり具体的にお話させていただいています が、設計はすでに終わって仕様もだいたい決まっているので、あとはサーバーが出来上がり次第作っていくだけです。
GameWatch - Whats your idea on what type of situation can you summon primals?
YoshiP - I think it’s OK to call whenever you like. When you can’t kill the boss in a free company using it as a final card asking “Ifrit beat the crap out of it” or in PvP area taking those heavy (hardcore) players always beating everyone up “Please take them down with one shot”.
It’s OK to go overboard. However you can only use it once and you don’t know when you can kill the next Ifrit and it doesn’t mean that card will come to you next time. When Ifrit gets summoned somewhere it will change the weather of all zones and you can tell someone summoned Ifrit. I think that be FF like MMORPG. It’s just general talk but we have the structure laid out and system is pretty much set so once the server is made we just need to build it.

編：　精霊を呼び出せる召喚士というジョブも追加される？
吉田氏：　いずれ実装します。ペットユーザーというのは、MMORPGのクラスでは花形でもありますし。例えば「カーバンクル」は召喚士が呼べる召喚獣です。しかし「イフリート」や「ガルーダ」や「リヴァイアサン」、「オーディン」は蛮神であるというわけです。
GameWatch - Job Summoner where you can summon spirits will also be implemented?
YoshiP - We will eventually implement. Pet users are star in MMORPG class. For example carbuncle is a summon a summner can call however “Ifrit” or “Garuda” or “Leviathan” or “Odin” are gods.

編：　どのあたりに線引きがあるのですか？
吉田氏：　感覚論なので難しいですね（笑）。単純に個人が術式で呼び出せてもおかしくないものが召喚獣で、そうでないものが蛮神です。
GameWatch - At what point is there a line to decide which is which?
YoshiP - That’s hard questions since it depends on feeling (laugh) generally something you can call yourself is summon, and those which you can’t call on own are gods.

編：　「シヴァ」や「ラムウ」はどうですか？
吉田氏：　あの2体も蛮神の予定です。特にエレメンタル四元素＋光闇あたりに関しては確定で蛮神かなと。
GameWatch - How about Shiva or Ramu?
YoshiP - Those two are also planned as gods. Mainly 4 elements and Light/Dark are confirmed gods.

編：　モンスターを呼び出すということですが、モンスターをテイミングすることはできないのですか？
吉田氏：　 その瞬間MPを消費して呼び出せるペットと、そのエリアにモンスターをテイミングして一時的 に使役するペットと2種類で設計はされています。設計には組み込んであるので、あとは順次といった感じでしょうか。その前にスペルユーザーも少ないです し、クラウドコントロールスペルも足りないので、現行運営でジョブを実装し、その先に順番にという感じですね。
GameWatch - You said calling a monster but can you not taim a monster?
YoshiP - Having pets you can call using MP an those monsters in the area which you can taim; we are preparing both. The design is there so now it’s to work on them, but before that there isn’t much spell users and there isn’t enough cloud control spell so first release jobs then will follow up afterwards.

編：　蛮神「オーディン」についてですが、どういう強さの蛮神になりそうですか？
吉田氏：　 設定は決まっているのですが、あまりしゃべるとネタバレになってしまいます。少し変わったこ とをやりたいなと。今まで「FFXIV」の歴史の中で「オーディン」の名前はなかったので、古い時代の第三星紀に登場した1人の英雄にまつわるエピソード を設定チームに作って貰いました。英雄が蛮神化して、記憶と目的を失って、エオルゼアの大地のいろいろなエリアを放浪している……。そんな蛮神にしようか と思っています。
GameWatch - Regarding primal “Odin”, how strong does it seem so far?
YoshiP - The design is set but if I talk too much will be spoiler so I want to do something different. In FFXIV history there hasn’t been any mention of Odin so We have asked the setting team to write up an episode regarding one of the heroes in ancient times third star (?not sure the NA name for this one, third star log) The hero becomes a primal and loses it’s goal and goes around in different areas of Eorzea; that’s the kind of primal we’re planning.

[moeru]

a roaming primal huh?

i say bring doom train then

[elreed]

Thats a very pesimistic thinking, i know they will make it so you can only have control over that primal card for certain time then it vanishes, that way if someone doesnt want to use it, well at the end he will loose the chance to use it and it will become available again, idk 1 week sounds good as time limit.

[TheFatHousecat]

a roaming primal huh?

i say bring doom train then

Bro do you even read the forums

[moeru]

sorry if i misinterpreted something.

i just got that from reading the lines of.

The hero becomes a primal and loses it’s goal and goes around in different areas of Eorzea; that’s the kind of primal we’re planning.

[Wynn]

This depends on the initial balance and design though, since SMN's balance in XI was purely built around perp cost (near impossible to tone down as a subjob) and the fact the avatars themselves leveled as you did. It depends on how they made the pet system, but given they want classes to be open ended, it's not too likely they'll create them in the same manner compared to what they could do if they create it as a job that branches off the Shepard class for example, since it is pretty basic to give everyone some type of pet nowadays.

Especially since they're so far using big name summons in the series as Primals (Leviathan, Ifrit, Titan, Garuda etc.) and so far only lesser avatars in the likes of Carbuncle (which was mostly a reflect whore for all intents and purposes) it would make sense that cross-class it won't take the same style strength hit as it did in XI, much like atm your class traits boosts skills that cross-classing won't get, i.e boosted invigorate so they still have great use cross-class, just even better if used by the native class. This is why I would see it as a problem as a class rather than Job, since they'll have to balance it around that fact rather than pulling out all the stops being a specialist.

I see what you mean.

I actually have a feeling SMN is going to be a job and the class will be something else. If that does end up being the case, summons will be locked to the job for certain.

It makes sense to me because what can you make for a classic Final Fantasy job to go above and beyond Summoner? To me, SMN is the job. But then that begs the question: What class will SMN attach to? Maybe the hinted at mystic that was in those old docs about planned jobs?

[Genz]

There are a lot of potential abuses, but it shouldn't be an obstacle to the awesomeness of the idea.
Since a primal may be a "joker" to win a fight, imposing heavy restrictions on its use shouldn't be a problem, like :
- a company can have only one "card" at a time
- the card is automatically lost after X time
- a company must wait X time after the card has been lost/used to be eligible to get a new card
- others
And that's only the most obvious ones.