ToS Question on Discord Bots, etc.

[tdb]

Violating the ToS is breaking the rules, but not all rulebreaking is cheating.
For example, insulting other players in the game also violates the ToS, but I don't see how it could be considered cheating.
"Cheating" implies that you are breaking the rules in a way that give you some advantage, but there are plenty of prohibited actions that do not give you any advantage.

Furthermore I wouldn't call using an external tool to analyze your combat performance cheating. The game saves combat events to a log file and parsing those is fair game. Intercepting network traffic is a bit of a borderline case, but as long as no packets are injected and the data is only used after the fight is complete, I'm willing to give it a clean pass as far as cheating is concerned. It probably does violate the ToS though.

Now, some combat tracker programs are able to provide realtime alerts for certain events, such as when an important ability is about to come off cooldown or when the boss is about to perform a big attack. Those I would call cheating because they directly help the player to perform better in the fight.

[KageTokage]

Furthermore I wouldn't call using an external tool to analyze your combat performance cheating. The game saves combat events to a log file and parsing those is fair game. Intercepting network traffic is a bit of a borderline case, but as long as no packets are injected and the data is only used after the fight is complete, I'm willing to give it a clean pass as far as cheating is concerned. It probably does violate the ToS though.

Now, some combat tracker programs are able to provide realtime alerts for certain events, such as when an important ability is about to come off cooldown or when the boss is about to perform a big attack. Those I would call cheating because they directly help the player to perform better in the fight.

I've been in BA groups where they had someone doing callouts using a combat tracker and it did legitimately feel like cheating as they were able to identify mechanics like Proto Ozma's shapeshifting before it even visibly started transforming (I believe the reason is because those moves have an invisible cast bar which the tracker is able to detect).

[alimdia]

I've been in BA groups where they had someone doing callouts using a combat tracker and it did legitimately feel like cheating as they were able to identify mechanics like Proto Ozma's shapeshifting before it even visibly started transforming (I believe the reason is because those moves have an invisible cast bar which the tracker is able to detect).

Cheating involves getting an unfair advantage, this is not an unfair advantage as you can actually do that without a third party program.




My own tests with the mobs outside Rhalgr's:



You simply filter your battle log to only actions initiated by the enemy, pop out the tab and move it somewhere easily visible, now you can see every time Ozma is about to switch forms, as this is recorded in the battle log before the animation begins.

[KageTokage]

Cheating involves getting an unfair advantage, this is not an unfair advantage as you can actually do that without a third party program.

You simply filter your battle log to only actions initiated by the enemy, pop out the tab and move it somewhere easily visible, now you can see every time Ozma is about to switch forms, as this is recorded in the battle log before the animation begins.

So I guess this applies to all actions, even ones without a cast bar.

That would've been nice to know like...two years ago, especially if it removes the need to look for visual tells.

[SaitoHikari]

Does this apply to all actions in general then, even ones that don't have a cast bar? Cause that would've been dandy to know like...two years ago.

I believe 'Double Smash' and 'Dread Dive' are instant cast abilities, so I imagine yes. It appears that it includes all named skills, so the only thing that wouldn't record are auto-attacks.

[AxlStream]

I believe 'Double Smash' and 'Dread Dive' are instant cast abilities, so I imagine yes. It appears that it includes all named skills, so the only thing that wouldn't record are auto-attacks.

Ding ding ding ding. We have a winner! Now you know how the parser actually works. Just add the boss + 8 players.

[tdb]

Cheating involves getting an unfair advantage, this is not an unfair advantage as you can actually do that without a third party program.

You simply filter your battle log to only actions initiated by the enemy, pop out the tab and move it somewhere easily visible, now you can see every time Ozma is about to switch forms, as this is recorded in the battle log before the animation begins.

That will give you a message of all of Ozma's attacks though, not just the shape shifting. You can configure the chat window to give an audible alert, but it will be dinging constantly and you can't tell when you should react in which way.

External combat trackers, on the other hand, can give alerts on only specific enemy abilities, or they can give different alerts for different abilities. They can use timers to give an alert five seconds before the ability begins (provided the fight is predictable enough, but quite a lot of boss fights are). I'm having trouble remembering when the tankbusters in O10S occur and such an alert program would help with that. I won't do it though because it would be cheating.

[Dualgunner]

That will give you a message of all of Ozma's attacks though, not just the shape shifting. You can configure the chat window to give an audible alert, but it will be dinging constantly and you can't tell when you should react in which way.

External combat trackers, on the other hand, can give alerts on only specific enemy abilities, or they can give different alerts for different abilities. They can use timers to give an alert five seconds before the ability begins (provided the fight is predictable enough, but quite a lot of boss fights are). I'm having trouble remembering when the tankbusters in O10S occur and such an alert program would help with that. I won't do it though because it would be cheating.

Likewise you can have party members calling that out based on a timeline and muscle memory of the mechanics themselves. In fact, all of the groups I've been in have had people call out mechanics, and most raiders I know make sure they have a good shotcaller in their group; mixed stimuli (sound + sight) allows for easier learning and memorization.

Is it right to use machines to do the sounds for you instead of raid members? I'm not gonna make a call there. Personally I think I would prefer having a shotcaller to having ACT do it for me, having never done the latter. But I can see the use of some things, such as setting it to sound off when Trick Attack goes up so the airwaves aren't filled with unnecessary chatter. As well, some fights this expansion do very much the same thing with voice-queued lines when they attack; Susano, Byakko, Tsuki, Suzaku, and Seiryu come to mind with voice lines signifying major mechanical happenings, and I can appreciate giving us sound cues as well in fights like this.

In Ultimate, I use the music itself to tell me what's going to happen because past Garuda, every song is normalized to the fight's timeline due to the fact that there is no variable start time.

[AleXwern]

Likewise you can have party members calling that out based on a timeline and muscle memory of the mechanics themselves. In fact, all of the groups I've been in have had people call out mechanics, and most raiders I know make sure they have a good shotcaller in their group; mixed stimuli (sound + sight) allows for easier learning and memorization.

Is it right to use machines to do the sounds for you instead of raid members? I'm not gonna make a call there. Personally I think I would prefer having a shotcaller to having ACT do it for me, having never done the latter. But I can see the use of some things, such as setting it to sound off when Trick Attack goes up so the airwaves aren't filled with unnecessary chatter. As well, some fights this expansion do very much the same thing with voice-queued lines when they attack; Susano, Byakko, Tsuki, Suzaku, and Seiryu come to mind with voice lines signifying major mechanical happenings, and I can appreciate giving us sound cues as well in fights like this.

In Ultimate, I use the music itself to tell me what's going to happen because past Garuda, every song is normalized to the fight's timeline due to the fact that there is no variable start time.

Myself, months and months after the tier become irrelevant, I will still know when Kefka is about to use Hyperdrive/change mechanics to a second based on position of the music. I don't see the issue with ACT callouts because the fights are so incredibly scripted in this game, the mechanics will be melded to your backbone anyway even before you have ended your prog. I'm like callout bot myself when I raid.

[Dualgunner]

Myself, months and months after the tier become irrelevant, I will still know when Kefka is about to use Hyperdrive/change mechanics to a second based on position of the music. I don't see the issue with ACT callouts because the fights are so incredibly scripted in this game, the mechanics will be melded to your backbone anyway even before you have ended your prog. I'm like callout bot myself when I raid.

I don't doubt it for a second. Multiple stimuli and human capacity for recognizing patterns (both auditory and visual) make for some strong mnemonic devices.