Yotsuyu, Fordola, syndrom of "a good writting"? (spoil)

[ChaoticCrimson]

The thing about Yotsuyu and Fordola is, while I can't forgive the awful things they've done, I understand why they did what they did. I mostly pity them more than anything else. The main problem I have with their character arcs is more the problem I have with the story pacing of Stormblood in general. I think a lot of things suffered by jumping back and forth between Doma and Ala Mhigo.

[Edax]

That's far more inline with Yotsuyu's way of thinking. Some Ala Mhigans did her harm, therefor all Ala Mhigans must suffer.

But that's not actually what Fordola's motivations are. She makes her countrymen suffer under the guise of helping them. Killing, imprisoning and allowing the rape of her own people while convincing herself it's for their own good is, even in the most positive light, extremely foolish. And it's okay to have a story where characters do foolish things, but it's not okay when those characters don't get proper punishments for their actions.

The writers have shown the Ala Mhigan are not nice people. They prey on the weak, attack the defenceless and commit war crimes. Remember when they dressed in the uniforms of other nations to provoke a war that could kill countless innocents? What is to be done with these people?

I m not agree

we can consider brain damage due to her past, tell me who grow up with a saint mind in this condition? I remember you that kind of case exist in our world, there is many of it, (so this story first deserve to approach this topic that make a good point for me) I dont find her sympethetic, at start i was bored to see another cliché, like a femal version of zenos, but after seeing her background i found that more interesting. Yotsuyu has been tortur and captiv by two very criminal person who deserved 150 time their fuking death. Of cours he doesnt excuse her own crime, i dont excuse my father crime because he got an asshole as father too, but still we can understand. And the major problem showed by yotsuyu, is the fact that the society did nothing to save her at all, and today this might be highlight some probleme of this kind on our current society.

How many people heard their neighboor beat their wife or children, and do nothing?

And do note that NOBODY takes responsibility for their in-action. Nobody changes from this story, nobody has an arc, nobody has learned a lesson.

Anterograde amnesia is the inability to create new memories due to brain damage
Retrograde amnesia is inability to recall memories before onset of amnesia.
Post-traumatic amnesia is generally due to a head injury (example: a fall, a knock on the head). Traumatic amnesia is often transient, but may be permanent or either anterograde, retrograde, or mixed type.
Lacunar amnesia is the loss of memory about one specific event.
Childhood amnesia (also known as infantile amnesia) is the common inability to remember events from one's own childhood.
Transient global amnesia (TGA) is a neurological disorder whose key defining characteristic is a temporary but almost total disruption of short-term memory with a range of problems accessing older memories
Source amnesia is the inability to remember where, when or how previously learned information has been acquired, while retaining the factual knowledge.


Yotsuyu's Amnesia doesn't fit any of these. It's the soap-opera brand of amnesia, drama resulting from hack writing.

[Kazhim]

The writers have shown the Ala Mhigan are not nice people. They prey on the weak, attack the defenceless and commit war crimes. Remember when they dressed in the uniforms of other nations to provoke a war that could kill countless innocents? What is to be done with these people?



And do note that NOBODY takes responsibility for their in-action. Nobody changes from this story.

yes so how do we interpret this?

1 : they do the change but the story sound suddendly naive and happy ending
2: they do not, and show how society can be cold and not affected by this kind situation, showing a certain reality.

2 sounds more an idea to be realist, and maybe make think the player about.

here is my point

[Edax]

yes so how do we interpret this?

1 : they do the change but the story sound suddendly naive and happy ending
2: they do not, and show how society can be cold and not affected by this kind situation, showing a certain reality.

2 sounds more an idea to be realist, and maybe make think the player about.

here is my point

I'm sorry, your grammar is very poor.
I'm assuming you mean
1: Domas learn a very bitter lesson about complacency that cost thousands of lives. I don't see how this could be a happy ending.
2. Doma doesn't change, and we learn that the people are morally corrupt and that they ruined their nation with their own hands.

The first is at least a realistic lesson about "All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good to do nothing".

The second is also realistic but it calls into question whether Doma should have been saved to begin with. That would be a very dark and grim theme, but I suppose they could have pulled it off. At least the then the story would be about introspection and not about the villain of the month. It may even prompt a change in the characters, perhaps prompting Hien to try and reform Doma. This could serve as the impetus for a character arc for Doma as a whole. We've already seen this happen with Ishgard.

But instead, nobody learned anything and nobody changed. The events just "happened" and then it was over. Almost like a fanfic.

[Gemina]

The thing about Yotsuyu and Fordola is, while I can't forgive the awful things they've done, I understand why they did what they did. I mostly pity them more than anything else. The main problem I have with their character arcs is more the problem I have with the story pacing of Stormblood in general. I think a lot of things suffered by jumping back and forth between Doma and Ala Mhigo.

This pretty much reflects my thoughts on them and SB. If there is anything I am invested on with Fordola is the budding relationship between her and Arenvald. There's a connection there, and their upbringing along with the both of them frequently being at the same place at the same time isn't something I can ignore. They've been on both the opposite and same sides on the battlefield. She might be able to be redeemed through him much like Yotsuyu was headed with Gosetsu before her half brother came along and threw a monkey wrench between the cogs.

She's far from redeemed, but I am hard pressed to call her a true monster. She's not made of pure evil and has not let the monstrous side of her personality to consume her entirely. She's a very interesting character and I am glad she is still around. She is well on her way to filling the anti-hero slot. Many lives were lost as a result of her actions, but all of them were soldiers and this is war. I'm not saying this justifies her actions, but she was clearly conflicted with firing upon her own men because she's knows right from wrong and monsters don't care about this. She would sooner abandon her allegiance to whomever to save a civilian than take his or her life.

I pity Yotsuyu because she has been deprived of choice her entire life, so much so that when it is actually given to her, she still feels she doesn't have one and must act in a way that suits her image. I pity her because she's so beautiful on the outside, and just so very rotten within. Like opening up a fresh cantaloupe only to find maggots at the core. I pity her because she never will never know what friends, family, love, compassion, empathy, and kindness are. All of it was taken from her and witnessing them herself is foreign or alien. Just so very, very sad.

[ObsidianFire]

I'm with ChaoticCrimson on this. On paper, I like how all of these characters work. I like Lyse just fine as the character SB was trying to make her be. In fact, I'd say she more a victim of fandom hate for a character she isn't even trying to be then anything else at this point. Fordola is a great "stuck in the middle of two cultures with no good options" character. Yotsuyu is one of the few characters I've seen who does the amnesia tropes well. I like that in the end she gets her revenge on the people who really did make her life hell (her aunt, uncle and cousin) while it's made obvious that how she got mad and took it out on the rest of Doma wasn't right.

Unfortunately, Stormblood's overall pacing, especially in 4.0, was really bad. The writers tried to cram too much plot into the expansion so they could get to 5.0. The characterization of many of the characters, not just these three, suffered from that a lot. I never felt like we got a long enough time spent anywhere unless I slowed down and did sidequests. Taken out of the rushed plot, many of the characters work a lot better. The rest of the 4.x series doesn't feel so rushed compared to 4.0, so the characterization feels a lot better.

[Bright-Flower]

Some things to consider.

1. Yes some ala mhigans like Ilberd and his followers did some very bad things. However, most of these people were driven to the edge after 20 years of a brutal occupation. They were desperate. That doesn't excuse everything they did, but there's more to it than 'they were just bad people' as well.

2. Not all of them are like that. The ones that followed Ilberd in particular were almost all wiped out at Baelsar's wall and the resistance faction we work with didn't support or condone what Ilberd did. There are plenty of good ala mhigan characters we meet in Stormblood. Saying that 'ala mhigans aren't nice people' as a whole is like saying 'Ishgardian's aren't nice people' as a whole.

For Yotsuyu, she would have been a decent enough arc villain I guess if they'd just killed her in Doma Castle. But I hated her story in 4.2 and 4.3 so much with the cheap amnesia bs that I wish they hadn't brought her back at all. The only good thing I have to say about her arc in 4.2 and 4.3 is that she took Asahi with her. I'm sorry but having a character introduced as coercing innocent villagers into murdering each other is going to need more than a tragic backstory to make me entertain the idea of redeeming them or feeling sorry for them like it felt like 4.3 wanted me to do. Yotsuyu had the potential to be a GREAT character but they handled her so poorly her story is the worst part of the entire msq from 2.0 to 4.5 for me.

[Edax]

I'm with ChaoticCrimson on this. On paper, I like how all of these characters work. I like Lyse just fine as the character SB was trying to make her be. In fact, I'd say she more a victim of fandom hate for a character she isn't even trying to be then anything else at this point. Fordola is a great "stuck in the middle of two cultures with no good options" character. Yotsuyu is one of the few characters I've seen who does the amnesia tropes well. I like that in the end she gets her revenge on the people who really did make her life hell (her aunt, uncle and cousin) while it's made obvious that how she got mad and took it out on the rest of Doma wasn't right.

Unfortunately, Stormblood's overall pacing, especially in 4.0, was really bad. The writers tried to cram too much plot into the expansion so they could get to 5.0. The characterization of many of the characters, not just these three, suffered from that a lot. I never felt like we got a long enough time spent anywhere unless I slowed down and did sidequests. Taken out of the rushed plot, many of the characters work a lot better. The rest of the 4.x series doesn't feel so rushed compared to 4.0, so the characterization feels a lot better.

The very start of Heavenward was genius. It reduced all the characters down to the Warrior of Light, Tataru Taru and Alphinaud before introducing new characters.

Some things to consider.

1. Yes some ala mhigans like Ilberd and his followers did some very bad things. However, most of these people were driven to the edge after 20 years of a brutal occupation. They were desperate. That doesn't excuse everything they did, but there's more to it than 'they were just bad people' as well.

2. Not all of them are like that. The ones that followed Ilberd in particular were almost all wiped out at Baelsar's wall and the resistance faction we work with didn't support or condone what Ilberd did. There are plenty of good ala mhigan characters we meet in Stormblood. Saying that 'ala mhigans aren't nice people' as a whole is like saying 'Ishgardian's aren't nice people' as a whole.

For Yotsuyu, she would have been a decent enough arc villain I guess if they'd just killed her in Doma Castle. But I hated her story in 4.2 and 4.3 so much with the cheap amnesia bs that I wish they hadn't brought her back at all. The only good thing I have to say about her arc in 4.2 and 4.3 is that she took Asahi with her. I'm sorry but having a character introduced as coercing innocent villagers into murdering each other is going to need more than a tragic backstory to make me entertain the idea of redeeming them or feeling sorry for them like it felt like 4.3 wanted me to do. Yotsuyu had the potential to be a GREAT character but they handled her so poorly her story is the worst part of the entire msq from 2.0 to 4.5 for me.

It illustrators the point of why Fordona would not commit to the Ala Mhigan cause if so many of the people were a bunch of predatory thugs. Note that a lynch mob forms to try and murder a defenceless Fordona as well and so many got blood on their hands for stoning Fordona's father to death. Sure, not all of them are like such as Raubahn, but the story has shown us that most of Ala Mhigans are like this. Even before the Empire occupied Ala Mhigo and made them desperate, the lore says it was an aggressive nation, invading Eorzea. Would you fight for these people? At the very least in Heavensward, there were houses and factions that took side within Ishgard. There was actual politics in the city. All that stopped Fordona from being lynched were main characters that didn't live in Ala Mhigo. Can you name a political faction in Ala Mhigo beyond "The Resistance"?

[Cybylt]

Some things to consider.

1. Yes some ala mhigans like Ilberd and his followers did some very bad things. However, most of these people were driven to the edge after 20 years of a brutal occupation. They were desperate. That doesn't excuse everything they did, but there's more to it than 'they were just bad people' as well.

2. Not all of them are like that. The ones that followed Ilberd in particular were almost all wiped out at Baelsar's wall and the resistance faction we work with didn't support or condone what Ilberd did. There are plenty of good ala mhigan characters we meet in Stormblood. Saying that 'ala mhigans aren't nice people' as a whole is like saying 'Ishgardian's aren't nice people' as a whole.

Look back a bit further than the past 20 years and you have the despotic rule of Theodoric. As lesser nobles, Fordola's family would have been on the chopping block real soon as he continually expanded who he thought would usurp him. Of course they were going to find Garlean rule preferable to the guy in charge is actively trying to kill us. Garlemald didn't even have to remove places of worship, Theodoric took care of that for them since in his insane paranoia he went to war with the state religion. The royal guard became a band of cut-throats for hire and then highwaymen who assaulted and robbed refugees, their own people, as they made their escape when the king was taken out.

Fordola is 19, we were maybe 5 years into occupation when the people found it reasonable to try to kill toddlers in the streets of the capital. And that's under Gaius, a man who completely buys into colonies ability to rise up and self-regulate. When we get there we see life under Zenos, whose entire MO is to ramp up oppressive measures until the locals fight back for kicks.

Ala Mhigo has a long history of aggression, they were the enemy nation that the original Eorzean Alliance was founded to defend its members against. Ala Mhigo was being cut out of trade because of seafaring trade taking off, so they did the completely reasonable thing of try to violently annex Gridania and this appears to be why the Elementals refuse the settlement of many of them to this day.

These were a people full of aggressive, unearned pride and the whole point of the Skulls was to drag them kicking and screaming into a better world since lashing out was all their history paints them as being able to do.

[Alleo]

She's far from redeemed, but I am hard pressed to call her a true monster. She's not made of pure evil and has not let the monstrous side of her personality to consume her entirely. She's a very interesting character and I am glad she is still around. She is well on her way to filling the anti-hero slot. Many lives were lost as a result of her actions, but all of them were soldiers and this is war. I'm not saying this justifies her actions, but she was clearly conflicted with firing upon her own men because she's knows right from wrong and monsters don't care about this. She would sooner abandon her allegiance to whomever to save a civilian than take his or her life.

I am not sure anymore but I do think I kinda saw Fordola as quite monsterous (but never in the depth of Yotsuyu) before getting more information about her current situation. Her just getting the echo visions alone would not have been that great but her having to fight against primals thus putting her skills to work and her saving that person when she could have used it to flee was at least a nice change thus in the end I do like her redemption. But we should not forget that she did not just attack soldiers. We know that her group was quite ruthless with normal civilians too, we saw it first hand with some of them hitting that poor man. The big difference to Yotsuyu was imo that she did not enjoy it (or at least did not show it) but she still was not quite nice to a lot of people.