Can it still be called a "raid" anymore?

[TabrisOmbrelame]

Imagine doing a raid like one of World of Warcraft, just to name one Ice Crown Citadel.

If I remember correctly it was 12 boss in the same instance. Well the timer in this kind of content is useless xD

[Kalise]

Imagine doing a raid like one of World of Warcraft, just to name one Ice Crown Citadel.

If I remember correctly it was 12 boss in the same instance. Well the timer in this kind of content is useless xD

Something more akin to WoW's Naxxramas would probably make the most sense.

Where it was 14 bosses in the same instance. But 4 different paths from the start taking you down a wing that each had 3 bosses down it (Along with some Trash between)

With completing all 4 wings unlocking the "Final" path which has just 2 bosses and no trash in it (Unless you count the start of the final boss's encounter where you fought trash before the boss deemed you worthwhile to actually pay attention to)

As far as "Muh lewt!" goes, in WoW they also had it so that trash could drop loot. So it wasn't just a waste of time to clear them, because you could get some epics drop from them (Which sometimes had progression raids that were struggling actually set aside some time to just farm trash and reset the instance to farm more trash in order to try and get some of this loot to then help them for the following week's lockout)

To be fair, the main limiting factor in FFXIV's raid design is how everything is done on that timer. So you can't have deep progression of a raid because once the timer is over, that's it to re-enter you start again from the very beginning...

Even Eureka is on a timer (Albeit as a persistent zone, so you can leave and re-enter the same one with a new timer)... So the best they can do is maybe have Deep Dungeon style "Saving" of progression, where you can clear trash/mini-bosses and then save your progression after beating the boss ready to continue on from that point (Or reset and start from the beginning again to farm the boss)

[Kuroka]

To be fair, the main limiting factor in FFXIV's raid design is how everything is done on that timer. So you can't have deep progression of a raid because once the timer is over, that's it to re-enter you start again from the very beginning...

Its not, look at the deep dungoens, there is literally no reason to not make checkpoints to save, so a static can progress step by step. They surely could...

[Satarn]

Its not, look at the deep dungoens, there is literally no reason to not make checkpoints to save, so a static can progress step by step. They surely could...

"Seems our AST can't make it tonight, guess we need to grab a sub- Oh never mind, we can't because the comp is locked, guess we do no progress today."
Also rip PF and DF(which is used quite a lot by JP raiders). We'd also lose the ability to skip weeklies we no longer need loot from, so we can get more relevant prog while raiding on tight amount of hours per week. Not to mention no longer being able to just join friends or random PFs to help with their prog and kills. Or doing log and meme runs on alt jobs.

While I'd like to see more dungeon-esque raids, looking at how coils worked, with t3 especially, as well as deep dungeons(and complaints form people about how hard it is to get 4 people together consistently btw, not everybody can raid with a static), I don't believe FFXIV's spagetti code would really allow for that without being very clunky and inconvenient.

Another issue is, as previously mentioned by others, SE's apparent inability to design good trash mob encounters. Trash at floors 80-99 of HoH is somewhat engaging(which boggles my mind as to why eureka mobs aren't more like this), but they would probably still be hella boring in 8 man raids, with none of the other Deep Dungeon elements.

[splinter1545]

Its not, look at the deep dungoens, there is literally no reason to not make checkpoints to save, so a static can progress step by step. They surely could...

To be fair, these checkpoints are basically just the end of one instance, and then you either stop or go up the next 10 floors. Which is basically what we have now for raids anyway. You clear O10S, you either move on to O11S or just stop there for the night or whatever.

[SendohJin]

To be fair, these checkpoints are basically just the end of one instance, and then you either stop or go up the next 10 floors. Which is basically what we have now for raids anyway. You clear O10S, you either move on to O11S or just stop there for the night or whatever.

Turn 1 had a mid-instance checkpoint. But I'm not in favor of that kind of trash.

I don't mind more strings of mini-boss fights like Turn 2 or A6, or waves of mob fights like Turn 4, A2 or A10. I feel like they should have at least one of those in every cycle. We don't need straight up 4 boss fights every time.