Please don't defile BST

[Deceptus]

It's my last hope for this game, if they ever decide to add it. I don't have an identity in XIV, and it's depressing.

In XI I was a SMN, BST, DRG, BLU main, and I had such an incredible pride and sense of ownership of those classes that it kept me in XI for years and years.

SMN is not SMN. I don't know what it is. I don't see how XIV SMN in any way resembles any iteration of SMN from any prior FF game.

Sounds like you need to either move on from FFXI or keep playing it if you love it so much.

[Dyvid]

Sounds like you need to either move on from FFXI or keep playing it if you love it so much.

Sorry but I'm starting to agree with this. FFXIV's SMN has always been a DoT mage with pets and too do a complete tear down of a job because a few don't like it is bad business. Why don't you trying playing all the jobs FFXIV has to offer and find something you like rather than trying to change one into something you want. it's fine to want something else but maybe what you want is already in game?

P.S. I suggested making Beast Tamer into a pokemon style gameplay Limited Job that is old school turn base. Hate me now.

[Madisonlee]

Sounds like you need to either move on from FFXI or keep playing it if you love it so much.

Sorry but I'm starting to agree with this. FFXIV's SMN has always been a DoT mage with pets and too do a complete tear down of a job because a few don't like it is bad business. Why don't you trying playing all the jobs FFXIV has to offer and find something you like rather than trying to change one into something you want. it's fine to want something else but maybe what you want is already in game?

P.S. I suggested making Beast Tamer into a pokemon style gameplay Limited Job that is old school turn base. Hate me now.

You two are free to enjoy XIV's SMN as it is, that's fine. But you obviously haven't ever played any other FF aside from XIV if you think a true SMN is a "DoT mage." I know this game gets a lot of WoW refugees and the like, and that's fine, but understand where FF fans are coming from when we complain about job identity. I'd venture to say that regardless of how many people are fine with XIV SMN, the majority of people recognize that it in no way, shape, or form aside from Demi-Bahamut resembles what SMN has been in EVERY other FF, NOT just XI. As I said before, I thought XI's SMN was rather weak and weirdly implemented, but at the very least it was still SMN. Asking me to "move on" from XI is laughable, I haven't played the game in over a decade.

[Eloah]

You two are free to enjoy XIV's SMN as it is, that's fine. But you obviously haven't ever played any other FF aside from XIV if you think a true SMN is a "DoT mage."

This is the issue that is causing. Lot of problems.

THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A TRUE SUMMONER, period.

SE can make SMN however they want. In XIV it's a DoT mage pure and simple. Could and should the implementation be a bit better yes. But there is no such thing as a true/real Summoner.

I am not singling you out, but this is the issue that irks me the most. Complain about the mechanics not the thematics.

[Madisonlee]

We could have gotten Eruptions, Tornados, and Landslides. Even outside those we could have gotten new abilities like Protostar or Laughing Rose.

Those sound like cool ideas, and would make XIV SMN more interesting, however for me it goes against the nature of SMN. SMN to my knowledge hasn't ever used a primal's attack himself; he summons the primal to do the attack. Let me know if I'm wrong and missed an iteration of SMN that has ever done that. It's an interesting concept and would be totally cool, it just wouldn't be the SMN that has appeared in every other FF that I have personally played. It's more a BLU thing.

This is the issue that is causing. Lot of problems.

THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A TRUE SUMMONER, period.

SE can make SMN however they want. In XIV it's a DoT mage pure and simple.

You're certainly right that SE can do and does whatever the heck they want, and that's what got them into trouble in 1.0. We had to embarrass them to such an extent that they fired the guy at the top of 1.0 and rebuilt the entire game.

Aside from that, you are also right in that SE is free to change around the job however they wish, but as Kalise was trying to drive through your head, it needs to adhere to what the job generally is known for, as one of the most fundamental and loved aspects of FFs are the famous jobs that we've grown to know and love throughout the years.

Again Kalise said this already but SE often changes it up a bit, add a Fairy to SCH which never had one before, DRG had a pet in XI which hadn't been done before, BST changes weapons alot (axes, daggers, whips, etc), the way Blue magic is learned and explained changes sometimes (the coolest was in XI IMO).

But you never change the core of the job. The core of SMN is SUMMONING PRIMALS. I don't understand what is so hard about this concept lol. That is not my, like, opinion dude. That is WRITTEN in the NAME of the job.

True FF fans will sometimes say " you can't put SMN in the MMOs, too overpowered" which is a valid argument. But they NEVER say "Summoner shouldn't be able to. . .summon." It's like you added WHM that couldn't heal! It's literally THAT big of a job deviation to not let SMN summon primals.

As you say, sure, they are SE, they made the game, they decide what a SMN becomes in each game. But they got this wrong, out of laziness or incompetence to implement pet jobs properly. And when they do something wrong, I've learned the only way Japanese devs tend to listen to the community is when we are loud and embarrass them about what they've done.

They started listening for Demi-Bahamut. I'm happy that you love your DoT mage and understand why you are angry that people want to change it. But what you are playing is NOT a Summoner to a large majority of us who know and love the job. I'm happy you enjoy it tho.

[Eloah]

You're certainly right that SE can do and does whatever the heck they want, and that's what got them into trouble in 1.0. We had to embarrass them to such an extent that they fired the guy at the top of 1.0 and rebuilt the entire game.

Aside from that, you are also right in that SE is free to change around the job however they wish, but as Kalise was trying to drive through your head, it needs to adhere to what the job generally is known for, as one of the most fundamental and loved aspects of FFs are the famous jobs that we've grown to know and love throughout the years.

Again Kalise said this already but SE often changes it up a bit, add a Fairy to SCH which never had one before, DRG had a pet in XI which hadn't been done before, BST changes weapons alot (axes, daggers, whips, etc), the way Blue magic is learned and explained changes sometimes (the coolest was in XI IMO).

But you never change the core of the job. The core of SMN is SUMMONING PRIMALS. I don't understand what is so hard about this concept lol. That is not my, like, opinion dude. That is WRITTEN in the NAME of the job.

True FF fans will sometimes say " you can't put SMN in the MMOs, too overpowered" which is a valid argument. But they NEVER say "Summoner shouldn't be able to. . .summon." It's like you added WHM that couldn't heal! It's literally THAT big of a job deviation to not let SMN summon primals.

As you say, sure, they are SE, they made the game, they decide what a SMN becomes in each game. But they got this wrong, out of laziness or incompetence to implement pet jobs properly. And when they do something wrong, I've learned the only way Japanese devs tend to listen to the community is when we are loud and embarrass them about what they've done.

They started listening for Demi-Bahamut. I'm happy that you love your DoT mage and understand why you are angry that people want to change it. But what you are playing is NOT a Summoner to a large majority of us who know and love the job. I'm happy you enjoy it tho.

What does the issue that was 1.0 have to with SMN, they are not mutually exclusive. And Kalise wasn't trying to drive anything into my head. XIV's Summoner does exactly as its namesake implies it summons. The main issue there isn't the Egi itself but it's appearance; as most people have pointed out the ones in XI act similarly but appear more "traditional". As you said, it's in the like, name of the job, Arcanist, Scholar, and Summoner are all "summoners" in the world of XIV.

And please, for the love of holy, stop confusing my stance on the matter as me "liking" the job, I don't. Can I tolerate it, yeah, but I have just as many gripes with it as the rest of you. I am just placing my blame where it's supposed to be, the mechanics of the job, not the thematics. Kalise gave a reasoning why she didn't like XIV's SMN, and I thanked her, because she was describing how the mechanics didn't feel right, not the theme. Remember XIV and XI's SMNs are more alike than people think, but because the Avatars looked "cooler" they didn't run into the same issue. Instead people argued the mechanics of the job. And Avatars are the exact same thing as Egis, smaller versions of the greater whole.

So they don't understand the what's it like to be a true summoner and not a dot mage.

There is no such thing as a "True Summoner". More iconic yes, true no.

[Flana]

Those sound like cool ideas, and would make XIV SMN more interesting, however for me it goes against the nature of SMN. SMN to my knowledge hasn't ever used a primal's attack himself; he summons the primal to do the attack. Let me know if I'm wrong and missed an iteration of SMN that has ever done that. It's an interesting concept and would be totally cool, it just wouldn't be the SMN that has appeared in every other FF that I have personally played. It's more a BLU thing.

You're fixating too hard where I said "you.' I specifically said in the post that we could have used those abilities through the pets (effectively commanding them to do things), not that the Summoner itself is going to go around spamming Mountain Buster. They could have given the pets more depth and some new skills for the first time since ARR, but didn't. Instead they added a new pet with even less depth, because Bahamut literally does nothing except attack. At least Ifrit and Garuda can pretend to have complexity through Radiant Shield and Contagion.

But you never change the core of the job. The core of SMN is SUMMONING PRIMALS. I don't understand what is so hard about this concept lol. That is not my, like, opinion dude. That is WRITTEN in the NAME of the job.

This is what Summoner is in XIV. You can not like egi's, fine, but that is literally summoning the aspect of a primal. You still command them to do their signature attacks (except Bahamut, because reasons I guess). That never changed in Final Fantasy XIV.

Sad that some of these people only know summoner from that other job they had in that ugly game (XI). I don't think most of them played another final fantasy game ever. So they don't understand the what's it like to be a true summoner.

This is far more accurate in my experience.

[Dyvid]

You two are free to enjoy XIV's SMN as it is, that's fine. But you obviously haven't ever played any other FF aside from XIV if you think a true SMN is a "DoT mage." I know this game gets a lot of WoW refugees and the like, and that's fine, but understand where FF fans are coming from when we complain about job identity. I'd venture to say that regardless of how many people are fine with XIV SMN, the majority of people recognize that it in no way, shape, or form aside from Demi-Bahamut resembles what SMN has been in EVERY other FF, NOT just XI. As I said before, I thought XI's SMN was rather weak and weirdly implemented, but at the very least it was still SMN. Asking me to "move on" from XI is laughable, I haven't played the game in over a decade.

You assume too much. Let me explain something to you. I first played Final Fantasy on my NES in 1990 and have played and beat every numbered titled. I have seen Summoner in every playstyle form, have seen Eikons from one and done spells to controllable pets. I've marveled at the many different takes of the famed monsters from a tale in a Chocobos Book to drivers of go karts. I unlocked SMN in FFXI as my first Advanced Job in earlier 2004, switched to BLM because of my disappointment of being a /37 WHM, then changed to Corsair because I really enjoyed the playstyle. I played FFXIV 1.0 at launch, alpha tested after the meteor, played ACN during beta and then SMN at 2.0 relaunch. So yea, my resume is full thanks.

The point is I'm old enough and wise enough to understand why Summoner is SMN in FFXIV, why we can't have things one way and not another. I've given tons upon tons of feedback to the Dev about SMN from improving Egi design to added what would be know as Demi-Bahamut back in 2015. Most of all I understand it's more important that you play a job you enjoy over playing a job you wish you enjoyed. If you like playing SMN in FFXIV, great I welcome feedback that would improve upon the original design. If you hate SMN, fine because you are entitled to free thought and the right to voice your displeasure to the Development team. The only thing I disagree with is when asking to completely scrap a job because it's not how you envisioned it. If it was my choice I would have went with my idea from 2005 about having a two hour ability shaped around a summon giving every job the chance to fulfill the FInal Fantasy iconic role. SE chose to add a DoT/Pet Job that plays different from BLM rather similar, and it's a job I've enjoyed playing since 2013.

[Eloah]

You assume too much. Let me explain something to you. I first played Final Fantasy on my NES in 1990 and have played and beat every numbered titled. I have seen Summoner in every playstyle form, have seen Eikons from one and done spells to controllable pets. I've marveled at the many different takes of the famed monsters from a tale in a Chocobos Book to drivers of go karts. I unlocked SMN in FFXI as my first Advanced Job in earlier 2004, switched to BLM because of my disappointment of being a /37 WHM, then changed to Corsair because I really enjoyed the playstyle. I played FFXIV 1.0 at launch, alpha tested after the meteor, played ACN during beta and then SMN at 2.0 relaunch. So yea, my resume is full thanks.

The point is I'm old enough and wise enough to understand why Summoner is SMN in FFXIV, why we can't have things one way and not another. I've given tons upon tons of feedback to the Dev about SMN from improving Egi design to added what would be know as Demi-Bahamut back in 2015. Most of all I understand it's more important that you play a job you enjoy over playing a job you wish you enjoyed. If you like playing SMN in FFXIV, great I welcome feedback that would improve upon the original design. If you hate SMN, fine because you are entitled to free thought and the right to voice your displeasure to the Development team. The only thing I disagree with is when asking to completely scrap a job because it's not how you envisioned it. If it was my choice I would have went with my idea from 2005 about having a two hour ability shaped around a summon giving every job the chance to fulfill the FInal Fantasy iconic role. SE chose to add a DoT/Pet Job that plays different from BLM rather similar, and it's a job I've enjoyed playing since 2013.

If I wasn't already married, I think I'd ask you to marry me, lol.

Thank you, for the love of Hydaelyn, Thank you. This is what I've been trying to get across. Just because it's different, doesnt make it wrong. People are allowed their opinions, just place the focus on the right topic.

Again thank you, I know a few people at least get it.

[Jkap_Goat]

Sad that some of these people only know summoner from that other job they had in that ugly game ( WoW). I don't think most of them played another final fantasy game ever. So they don't understand the what's it like to be a true summoner and not a dot mage.