Give the possible Eureka 5.X its own weapon, and separate Relic from it

[wereotter]

Meanwhile, 2.0/3.0 Relics having a majority of their content just being focused on purchasing items with Tomestones, meant that you inherently just had a variety of things you could do to progress on the Relic. You could do dungeons, Raids, Trials, Roulettes, PotD or PvP.

This, I think, is my biggest disappointment with this expansion's relic weapon. In Heavensward, I had an incentive to run my level 60 roulette and my level 50 roulette because there was value in the old tomestones to progressing my weapon. This time, a new tomestone comes out and I immediately cap the old one without spending any of them till they're retired and the latest one becomes the old one. It's given me no incentive to running roulettes, and as such, I don't do it anymore. It's actively taken players out of content rather than adding in something more for players to do, and that is a parasitic design that in the long run, is bad for the health of the game.

To me, the best compromise between people who liked Eureka for its progression and everyone else is to make whatever system they use in 5.0 a hybrid of the two. Maybe make it so that there are things you can do in the exploratory zones to advance your weapon, but if you don't want to do it, there's another system. I think the best success of the 3.0 relic was there was always more than one method of completing every step. This let people progress their weapon in a manner that was most enjoyable to them rather than be forced down one path, which is what Eureka has done.

[Kalise]

That sounds like a confused person. Because if it's that same relic from both ways. Then Eureka would already have the relic. So it doesn't make sense when they say Eureka without relic. They were probably confused as me when I read some saying they don't want two relics but want a relic and a Eurekan one.

Well, it makes sense in terms of when suggesting the Relic be attainable through non-Eureka content (In addition to Eureka), then Eureka players complained (Or would complain) that their end-goal and reason to actually go through the farm of Eureka would be redundant because it would just offer the same reward as is available elsewhere.

As such, one of the suggestions tied to making the Relic not solely available through Eureka would be to put something else in place for Eureka players to farm as their end goal, with the Relic still being farmable in Eureka, but not the only reward.

It could be something like a directly purchasable Tome/Trial equivalent weapon using Eureka specific resources, or a much easier grind for upgrading a weapon through Eureka into such a comparable weapon. Of course, with the extra grind being possible for the Relic too.

Somewhat simulating the gearing process of non-Eureka systems, where a Eureka player will be able to grind to purchase/upgrade their equipment much like how someone who's using Tomes can purchase new items when a new tier is released to upgrade.

With the "Relic" being a separate item that has additional power (Scaling to higher ilevel than most other alternatives, such as Tome, Trial and normal Raid weapons) but requires significantly more grind, be it in Eureka or not.

Of course, the easiest way to do this sort of enabling a "Relic" weapon that could be worked towards by multiple means, would be to have Eureka's end goal being something completely different to a weapon. So that Eurekans will go through their grind for something that isn't a weapon, with then also the option to grind towards the "Relic" weapon alongside this. As far as what that alternative could be... I don't know. I'm not entirely sure what kind of a reward would motivate a Eurekan given that I'm not one of them (Also, add into the mix the fact that I'm very confused about having gear as a motivating factor in content that sync's you to max level nublet ilevel anyway >.>). My first thought is something like a mount, but again, how much of a motivating factor would that be *Shrugs*

Again, it's one of those things that's tricky to figure out, especially from the perspective of someone who doesn't like Eureka as content and only does it because of the Relic. In addition to not being selfish asses so actually trying to consider how to create these alternative routes to a desired item without just ripping it out of the hands of other players whom are happy with Eureka like how many pro-Eureka players are altogether far too happy to screw over people who don't like Eureka so long as they get to keep their Relic grind in the content they enjoy.

But yeah, instead of having a discussion about compromises between what rewards Eureka could give that makes the content meaningful and enjoyable even if the Relic weapon was opened up in terms of ways to progress it to include non-Eureka sources, pro-Eureka players seem to rather just flame how 2.0/3.0 Relics worked and denounce the very concept of having multiple avenues of working towards the same Relic (Which is ironic, given that literally, due to the majorly Tome based progression for 2.0/3.0 Relics, has been a thing historically. Opening up the avenues of progression to also encompass Eureka is not only not a particularly new concept, but a decision that is laughably easy to implement. Wherein you can simply make the items required to progress the Relic be purchasable via Eurekan currencies, in addition to those attained through alternative non-Eurekan means)

[Ayer2015]

Don't encourage them to make another Eureka.....

[Astrus]

Don't encourage them to make another Eureka.....

As someone who hated Eureka I'd have to ask "why not?"
It certainly seems to have its audience, just like PvP, Savage Raids and other content that doesn't appeal to everyone. So long as they don't make it "mandatory" there's nothing wrong with having it available for those who enjoy it. There's plenty of content in the game that just doesn't appeal to me so I don't do it but I don't begrudge the respective fanbase of said content that they got something they enjoy.

If this is just another case of "but it takes away resources from my content!" I'd have to ask what makes that content more important aside from your own enjoyment. The content I enjoy might easily be said to take resources away from someone else's favorite content so what's the point in pointing fingers?
As a community we'd suffer if they only developed content for the largest fanbase.

[Soraki-Muppe]

If they just add more different things to do I will be fine with a new Eureka, more ways then fates and mindlessly killing mobs.
Things like:
Daily hunts.
Daily quests.
Weekly hunts.
Weekly quests.
Also 1 or 2 open dungeon you can do solo or in group.
And perhaps other things that would provide exp and what you need to complete the relic. The current design with no improvement is a big no for me.

[Burningskull]

If they just add more different things to do I will be fine with a new Eureka, more ways then fates and mindlessly killing mobs.
Things like:
Daily hunts.
Daily quests.
Weekly hunts.
Weekly quests.
Also 1 or 2 open dungeon you can do solo or in group.
And perhaps other things that would provide exp and what you need to complete the relic. The current design with no improvement is a big no for me.

I would rather they not add hunts to anything... EVER!! I hate hunts almost as much as I hate Eureka.

[Brynne]

But yeah, instead of having a discussion about compromises between what rewards Eureka could give that makes the content meaningful and enjoyable even if the Relic weapon was opened up in terms of ways to progress it to include non-Eureka sources, pro-Eureka players seem to rather just flame how 2.0/3.0 Relics worked and denounce the very concept of having multiple avenues of working towards the same Relic (Which is ironic, given that literally, due to the majorly Tome based progression for 2.0/3.0 Relics, has been a thing historically. Opening up the avenues of progression to also encompass Eureka is not only not a particularly new concept, but a decision that is laughably easy to implement. Wherein you can simply make the items required to progress the Relic be purchasable via Eurekan currencies, in addition to those attained through alternative non-Eurekan means)

I'm one of the people who replied to this thread in favor of the 'one relic, multiple ways to progress' idea. I think rather than Eurekan currencies, it'd be better to have upgrade items be dropped from different NMs (or rare rewards for things like treasure hunts and daily quests if they implemented them as people have suggested). Make them purchasable with tomes (not cheaply, of course, requiring the usual grind) and you'd provide the multiple avenues. It might take some tweaking and balancing in the start, but this could be a very sustainable way to make the relic quest going forward, while building on and improving the Eureka-like experience as they go. And if they wanted to continue with light farming, they could make it so you could either farm content with the relic equipped (as in previous relic quests) or kettle farm in Eureka (as in the current tier).

[Kalise]

I would rather they not add hunts to anything... EVER!! I hate hunts almost as much as I hate Eureka.

Hunts are great though.

Except for S and A rank Elite hunts which are total BS and a cesspool of ninja pullers and "I hope I get an invite to a party because otherwise I won't get enough contribution in the 0.1 femtosecond it takes for 300 people to nuke the target from orbit"