Give the possible Eureka 5.X its own weapon, and separate Relic from it

[LaylaTsarra]

Their appearance is so weak in comparison to past relic weapons.

I like them quite a bit. Sorry you don't feel the same way but you can't please everyone. WHM, BLM, RDM and PALLY are all pretty sweet in my opinion. Have a few others I'm planning on as well.

[splinter1545]

Or just make the Eureka experience better to go through. There's no reason to have this many weapons when we know Relic will always be the best one in the end of it all.

[manamoppet]

Hmm, what about if they combine the rebuilding of Ishgard into the Relic quest grind? Donating items could result in a specific part needed for a stage of the Relic (in place of x tokens/crafts to exchange for y parts) being given to us from the Ishgard treasure chamber or excavated during renovations, under cornerstones or something. Since the rebuilding of Doma was time-gated each week, that would let people do just about any content they wanted, and get gil while getting the Relic in a non-grindy way as well.

Of course, one could feel rebuilding Ishgard wouldn't be optional then, but it would give more life/players to Ishgard again.

[Bacent]

Or just make the Eureka experience better to go through. There's no reason to have this many weapons when we know Relic will always be the best one in the end of it all.

In the end of it all, that's usually the last half year at best of the expansion being out before the next one comes up. I've played other MMOs before that give you multiple types of weapons you can go after at once.

And don't forget the main point...NOT EVERYONE LIKES EUREKA TYPE CONTENT. Some people only play a couple hours a day due to real life being first. Not everyone wants to be forced into doing only one thing for a weapon to upgrade. Not everyone wants to be in a mindless instance of 144 people where people are always complaining about moochers, when many of said 'moochers' are people too low leveled to properly be able to damage a damn thing there. Sure, there are people that enjoy Eureka, but there's just as many that don't.

There IS reason to give players more options, you just don't agree with them I guess.

[Reynhart]

Some people only play a couple hours a day due to real life being first.

Those people have the tome weapons. People should really stop pretending that the Relic is the only weapon available outside of Raids.

[Bacent]

Those people have the tome weapons. People should really stop pretending that the Relic is the only weapon available outside of Raids.

You're ignoring the fact that the relic has had its own story in 2.X/3.X, with 3.X's relic story being the most interesting thus far. You actually gave life to the weapon and it grew with you, only for it to be cast aside because it's an afterthought at this point. A LOT of people really liked the story for the relic in 3.X and how they added it to eureka is just a kick to the crotch. If they're going to kill the story for the relic by making it an add-on to a special instance, where you can't do anything else there but work on that one thing the whole time, then give the Eureka like instances in the future their own weapons, and give back the story driven relic.

[Kalise]

Those people have the tome weapons. People should really stop pretending that the Relic is the only weapon available outside of Raids.

In the same vein, people should also really stop pretending that the Relic should be restricted to only their own preferred content.

Like, I'm not against people having Eureka as content. If they like Eureka and the end-game it provides, more power to them and I hope they continue to get content like it to satisfy them.

However, the Relic and Eureka are 2 DIFFERENT pieces of content. The previous 2 relics existed independently of Eureka/Diadem as such, it has been viewed as content for players outside those that liked Eureka/Diadem.

Thus, the Relic should be kept accessible outside of Eureka/Diadem.

If this means that Eureka becomes dead, then it's simply a case of them needing to find some alternative means to make people actually care about going there, rather than sticking the highly valued Relic weapon there. Like, Relics already exist in a spot where they're big grinds for little pay off (Given how often they are actually relevant as weapons compared to alternatives), there's no reason to further apply specific content locks to them.

I mean, your signature with the quote from Yoshida speaks volumes. About how Eureka won't be a place where everyone would want to go. This suggests that people who go to Eureka should be people that are going to Eureka for the content of Eureka. While the Relic completely contradicts that, because it then makes Eureka a place where everyone wants to go because everyone wants to get the shiny relic for the expansion.

If your only reason for liking Eureka is because you get the Relic, then you really need to re-evaluate about whether you actually like the content or merely just like the reward.

[Reynhart]

You're ignoring the fact that the relic has had its own story in 2.X/3.X, with 3.X's relic story being the most interesting thus far.

Which was completely unrelated to the content you actually did for that relic, so irrelevant on that topic. In fact, the Eureka weapons are more related to Eureka lorewise, especially the very final stages, that any previous relic to the content they asked you to do.

However, the Relic and Eureka are 2 DIFFERENT pieces of content. The previous 2 relics existed independently of Eureka/Diadem as such, it has been viewed as content for players outside those that liked Eureka/Diadem.

The Zodiac and the Anima were separated, the Eureka weapon isn't (In case the name wasn't clear). And, like I said above, there is a lore connection between the two. Also, the Zodiac was the only weapon available in 2.x if you wanted to keep the (almost) max ilvl at each patch without raiding. This was not the case in HW and SB. And, finally, the Anima had a step tied to Diadem and would have probably had others if Diadem didn't fail spectacularly.

I mean, your signature with the quote from Yoshida speaks volumes. About how Eureka won't be a place where everyone would want to go. This suggests that people who go to Eureka should be people that are going to Eureka for the content of Eureka.

People don't go into content just for the content, you have to give them a reward for that. It's the same for everything. Remove gear from Savage, and it will be on life support after the first clears.

While the Relic completely contradicts that, because it then makes Eureka a place where everyone wants to go because everyone wants to get the shiny relic for the expansion.

Except that, no, not everyone does the relic. Right now, the number of characters having done an Anima is still a very small part of the playerbase, despite being nerfed to death. And I'm pretty sure even the Zodiac is still a rarity, despite it being actually competitive in its own time.

If your only reason for liking Eureka is because you get the Relic, then you really need to re-evaluate about whether you actually like the content or merely just like the reward.

Considering how many people did Eureka despite hating it, just for the relic, it seems priority is a bigger issue for them. Me ? I like the relic, but I only did it because I like Eureka. I would have completely skipped if it was just another tomestone farm ad nauseum like the two previous ones.

In fact, the sentence above is probably the biggest clue on how likely the next relic will be tied to an exploration type content. Because it made people do it, even if they didn't really liked it. So, from a strategic PoV, it was brilliant. The thing, now that exploration content has already been confirmed for 5.x, is to give feedback on how to improve the content.

[Jandor]

If your only reason for liking Eureka is because you get the Relic, then you really need to re-evaluate about whether you actually like the content or merely just like the reward.

I reckon the only reason 95%+ of people did it was because it had a reward they liked locked behind it, because that's why people do things in this game.
Doing it for the reward and finding it fun are not mutually exclusive, but without a good reward fun alone won't keep the content relevant for long.

It's the same with Savage raids, people do it for the gear locked behind it. Without that gear numbers would drop.

Same with Extreme trials, they want the primal weapons and mounts. Without those, people would stop running them.

Same with Alliance raids, people want the catch up gear and upgrade tokens. You get the picture.

Hell, it's the same with expert roulette. Who in their right mind would be running the same 2 or 3 expert dungeons over and over again if it didn't give lots of tomes?

The majority of the population aren't doing content because it's fun, they're doing it because they want the stuff that comes from it. The more fun they have getting those rewards the better, people having fun stick around and people not having fun burn out and leave, but character progression in some form is the key to getting most people to actually do stuff.

[Kalise]

People don't go into content just for the content, you have to give them a reward for that. It's the same for everything. Remove gear from Savage, and it will be on life support after the first clears.

Then like I said, put another reward at the end. The reward doesn't have to be the Relic, unless that's the only reward with enough pull to get people to do the content.

Which is also a sign that the content sucks.

People do normal raids all the time, even though they can get gear from tomes. Savage has additional draw from having slightly better gear. Is slightly better gear worth grinding out Savage? Not really, unless the content of Raids was actually enjoyed.

Except that, no, not everyone does the relic.

The Relic still has a pull on people. Again, I mentioned that the grind associated with the Relic is already a barrier to push some people away. That's part of what makes the Relic desirable. If everyone got easy peasy Relics then the desire for them would decrease.

There's no reason to add additional barriers by locking Relics behind specific content.

Considering how many people did Eureka despite hating it, just for the relic, it seems priority is a bigger issue for them. Me ? I like the relic, but I only did it because I like Eureka. I would have completely skipped if it was just another tomestone farm ad nauseum like the two previous ones.

"I only did it because I like Eureka. But I wouldn't have done it if it didn't have the Relic"

Oxymoron much?

As I said, put another reward behind Eureka if it needs something to work towards

There's no reason it has to be the Relic. Unless Eureka as content sucks so bad that it's the only way to get people to actually play it, including if they hate the content (Which is contrary to the Yoshida quote you carry in your signature)

Doing it for the reward and finding it fun are not mutually exclusive, but without a good reward fun alone won't keep the content relevant for long.

Yeah, but there's a difference between doing it for the reward because the reward is so enticing that you will do the content regardless of if you like it or not. And then doing it for the reward because you like the content.

For example, I mentioned earlier Savage raiding. Objectively, Savage Raiding gives the best gear in the game.

But not everyone does it, because they don't find it fun and the reward of slightly better gear than they can obtain through other means doesn't have enough pull on them to get them to go through this content they don't find fun.

People farm EX Trials for gear and mounts. But if they didn't find it fun then they wouldn't (They could just wait 2 years and un-Sync them for mounts...) because they can get gear from alternate means.

With Eureka, you have people who hate the content that are going through it purely because of the Relic reward. Yes, there are alternate means to getting gear, but the Relic is unique within an expansion. There is only 1 Relic and only 1 item that is glamorous as the Relic per expansion.