What is a "bad player" to you?

[HyoMinPark]

You're not dealing with them though, you said it yourself, you're raiding and doing primals. That's content my friends don't do.

I participate in all content. More than just Savage or EX. They were, again, examples of things I do when I log in. Please actually read what I’m writing before you type out a response. I deal with lazy players even in Savage/Extreme, by the way. You’d be amazed at the things you can see in there.

But I’m not specifically talking about your friends; just lazy players in general. Of course, I don’t play with your friends—we aren’t even on the same data center.

You can call them lazy in a video game if you want, but you really have to think about that. Are you seriously calling someone playing a video game lazy?

You can still be lazy while engaging in a video game—it’s called actively not pressing your buttons.

Playing video games doesn’t necessarily equate to being lazy. You’re engaging in an activity—a hobby, if you will. Much like your friends who go out for hikes on Saturdays, late-night movies, and “drinks with the boys”. I wouldn’t call enjoying a hobby “lazy”.

I don't want to go down the road of defining what's enjoyable in a video game, but don't you think it's a bit rich of someone who only goes to school four days a week to call people who work forty hours a week lazy?

Where was I calling people who work 40 hours/week lazy? Nowhere. I was calling people who don’t want to press their buttons in video games because “it’s just a game, chill dude” lazy.

Please utilize your reading comprehension skills.

Don’t you think it’s a bit rich for you to assume that college isn’t work? I did less work at one of my own full-time jobs I worked at before I left to go back to school than I’ve done just in a semester of classes. But, by all means, please tell me more about how little work college is. College itself can be as much work as a full-time job.

I can go back and forth with you on this, but we would all just be arguing in circles.

You aren’t even arguing my points. You’re just erecting strawmen.

At the end of the day, the bad player majority will always rule in any MMO. There's no other way around it because not everyone wants to put effort into every game they play and sometimes they choose an MMO like FFXIV to just shut off. That's just how it goes.

There's plenty of people playing FFXIV because they're fans of Final Fantasy. They want to see the story and sometimes that involves having to do content where you have to deal with them. They're not MMO players, they just want to experience this entry in Final Fantasy. They don't care about rotations, OGCDs and GCDs and buffs. They just want to see the story.

That's what a majority of this forum is forgetting.

What you seem to be forgetting is that there are plenty of other players in the game that do care about the things you listed.

What makes the players who don’t care more important than those who do? Who determined that their version of fun is more important than another person’s? By someone being inherently lazy in content simply because “I don’t wanna work in a video game after working all day at my job/school”, they’re making the rest of their party work to cover their deficits. That’s disrespectful.


EDIT: Nice job deleting your post. Still going to respond to it, though.

[CarnivalNights]

I just got tired of arguing with someone in circles. Now you're just getting defensive telling me about your work experience. The conversation's taken a different direction. No for me, thank you though.

[HyoMinPark]

I just got tired of arguing with someone in circles. Now you're just getting defensive telling me about your work experience. The conversation's taken a different direction. No for me, thank you though.

Nope. I’m telling you to actually read before you respond to something, because your response was so off the mark from what I wrote that it was comical.

[CarnivalNights]

Nope. I’m telling you to actually read before you respond to something, because your response was so off the mark from what I wrote that it was comical.

I'm just backing away from a conversation that's no longer interesting, sorry if you got offended enough to finally start making backhanded remarks.

[NocturniaUzuki]

A bad player its a tank who dont undestand thats impossible heal and run at same time, agroo all mobs and espect healer cast time's intant. epic fail.

That's why you Sprint during pulls, and the healer's position is not at the back of the party. It's with the tank. Literally on the tank's butt of you can manage it. Using this method, you can land 1-2 GCD heals during the pull without going out of range, plus you have Swiftcast and oGCDs if you need to but ideally you want to save those for DPSing at the end of the pull.

[HyoMinPark]

I'm just backing away from a conversation that's no longer interesting, sorry if you got offended enough to finally start making backhanded remarks.

Not offended.

[Gemina]

I have met plenty of zero dps healers and the instances didn't take two or three times longer. Not even close.

It also wasn't any shorter, was it? Again though, it isn't about making the run shorter. In the case of healing, the faster things die the less you have to heal. High DPS is the numero uno damage mitigation tool in this game. It becomes really important in endgame, even just the NM encounters which are still a moderate step above dungeons, trials, and 24-man. The mechanical difficulty for NM raids and 24-man are about equal I would say, but what makes the 8-man raids more difficult is there are fewer players so reliability on everyone doing their jobs correctly is a lot tighter.

Now lets say you don't participate in this content and just do the required duties to complete the MSQ; you don't suddenly become less of a burden to others by not utilizing your full toolkit. The other members of your group are still putting forth more effort than the heals-only healer because in order to clear the dungeon, mobs need to die and you are doing nothing to help make this happen. This is why the heals-only healer is considered being carried. Sure, without your heals they won't get very far. But think about this: How far would you make it without them?

Team effort is present in ALL content, and there is no disputing your courtesy towards your fellow party members when you contribute to offense.

[SturmChurro]

You can safely say, I am a bad player.

[Kalise]

I think you underestimate the difference a healer makes on trash packs.

I think you underestimate how much faster a dungeon will go if the healer focuses on healing and so the Tank feels safe enough to mass pull.

I can't tell you the number of times I've had to take dungeons 1 pack at a time because healer's are too busy spamming Stone/Malefic to cast even a Regen. I've literally died to a single pack of enemies because the healer would just stand there DPS'ing while my health bar dropped.

Meanwhile, when I get healers who actually heal, wall to wall pulls it is. Spam me with heals while the DPS and I spam AoE and take out 3-5 packs far, far, far faster than your pathetic healer DPS would have made single packs die.

[Sieben79]

Spam me with heals while the DPS and I spam AoE and take out 3-5 packs far, far, far faster than your pathetic healer DPS would have made single packs die.

Um, no. I outdps as whm or scholar most of the generic dutyfinder players on big pulls and heal the tank (even the dps if they take damage) on the fly.

Also just do the math: for example

Tank: ~4k
Healer: ~3k
DPS: ~6k
DPS~6k

19k group dps is more than 16k