What is a "bad player" to you?

[cicatriz313]

I would like to point out that no amount of cooldowns will save if you receive no heals.

I should know, i can sit in tank stance, use Rampart, Sentinel, Hallowed Ground, Sheltron, Bulwark, and still end up dead on a mass pull or boss because of a lack of healing, heck, it's happened multiple times.

Examples include: Ravana Hard mode, get sliced to pieces due to being ignored by the healer, turns out cooldowns don't stop all damage (Except for Hallowed Ground, which only lasts 10 seconds and has a 7 minute cooldown, which doesn't help when the healers have decided that you don't need heals)

Titan Hard mode: Yeah sure buddy, don't heal the tank after Mountain Buster, i'm sure that can't possibly go wrong...wait, i ran out of HP, bugger.

The last trash pull in The Burn: damned bugs and worms end up eating my face straight trough tank stance and every CD in my arsenal whenever the healer decides to go "Nope, no heals, deeps only!" The only way to live long enough for the DPS to kill the things is to spam Clemency on myself instead of attacking, thereby removing tank DPS from the equation instead.

And plenty of other such incidents where no amount of correct cooldown management will save you from eventually running out of HP.

"Tank don't need healing, they are supposed to be invincible! Imma go ham on deeps instead! ...Tank why you die? U suck! Only bad tanks die!"

Seriously Healer? Seriously?

Acting as if infinite Hallowed Ground is a thing, my god.

And then there's the DPS and the healers themselves dropping to unavoidable raid wipe AOE's in boss fights...

What were these healers thinking anyway?

There are a lot of healers who can't handle both attacking and healing at the same time, but try it anyways because the meta says so, and in so doing get everybody killed, then start yelling at the tank for not being completely invulnerable.
But then, anecdotes count for nothing.

I'm sorry, but this is ridiculous. Ravana and titan? Those are like brain dead easy. Even synced they're meant to be bulldozed. Of course you'll die if healers don't heal but no one is saying to only dps. You're setting up an argument that doesn't exist just to knock it down. It's not "meta" to dps and heal as a healer, it's what the job is intended to do. That was made clear by job changes.

Edit: To bring more relevance to this post, a "bad" player is one who makes up excuses to not play well.

[Mixt]

So apparantly i wasn't entirely clear.

These are things that have actually happened to me, with that being the actual excuse used for why healing me should not be neccesary.
"But healing reduces my DPS! You should be able to take care of yourself so i can attack more!"

And i did mention that anecdotes apparantly count for nothing.

I was merely pointing out that yes, this is a thing that happens.
Probably as a result of less capable players trying to emulate endgame raiders without having a full understanding of how things work and taking the DPS-centric nature of the game way too far, with predictable results.

Thinking about it, it may not be possible to get what i mean across, someone is inevitably going to decide anything i say means something else than i meant and make a stink about it, so i'm just going to bow out now before my inability to clearly communicate throws rocket fuel on the fire.

[Penthea]

Unfortunately this kind of mind set have been spread so badly even newbies are following, they think they must dps at all contents
I have been dying a few time because the healer (with sprout icon) think they must dps. To a point I was kill by some low level content like Ravana

I have actually seen this happen in content of all levels. A somewhat odd experience like this is what made me allergic to tanking in this game. I had some weird luck one week - I got a streak of healers who just didn't heal. And this was in super low level content. I honestly found it so stressful to be constantly watching my hp bar get ridiculously close to death while often only my own cd saved me. I even had to use healing potions. Sometimes I died because I had nothing left to burn. It's so frustrating to be a tank sitting on less than 20% hp praying for just one heal while watching the healer spam stone.

[Metalwrath]

A bad player its a tank who dont undestand thats impossible heal and run at same time, agroo all mobs and espect healer cast time's intant. epic fail.

This to me just sounds like you dont understand how dungeons are run with pulls.
Considering you have level 70 jobs you should have a basic comprehension of how large pulls work and be able to prep for it.Especially considering i can see you have a level 70 blm so you'd know all about getting in position to nuke big pulls.

[AxlStream]

If anything this thread shows many players who don't know how the game works and that more damage given = less damage received...

[Metalwrath]

I'm sorry, but this is ridiculous. Ravana and titan? Those are like brain dead easy. Even synced they're meant to be bulldozed. Of course you'll die if healers don't heal but no one is saying to only dps. You're setting up an argument that doesn't exist just to knock it down. It's not "meta" to dps and heal as a healer, it's what the job is intended to do. That was made clear by job changes.

Edit: To bring more relevance to this post, a "bad" player is one who makes up excuses to not play well.

Only because of lvl syncing.
You've been playing since 2013 so you'd rmember how titan hard mode was back in 2.0 and how ravana hard was at launch.Neither were made to be bulldozed through.Lvl syncing has made it this way.

[cicatriz313]

Only because of lvl syncing.
You've been playing since 2013 so you'd rmember how titan hard mode was back in 2.0 and how ravana hard was at launch.Neither were made to be bulldozed through.Lvl syncing has made it this way.

Yeah... what's your point? It's not like that guy was min ileveling those fights. My point was those fights and most fights in the game are so easy that it's not hard for healers to throw some dps out there. His point was that because he had an experience or two where healers only wanted to dps, that we shouldn't ask healers to dps which is ridiculous.

[Keizerwilson]

If anything this thread shows many players who don't know how the game works and that more damage given = less damage received...

You'd think this would be common sense.

But in all fairness this isn't just a healer DPSing issue. It's also tanks that only ever sit in tank stance, and DPS that don't use any sort of mitigation tools at all.

[Metalwrath]

Yeah... what's your point? It's not like that guy was min ileveling those fights. My point was those fights and most fights in the game are so easy that it's not hard for healers to throw some dps out there. His point was that because he had an experience or two where healers only wanted to dps, that we shouldn't ask healers to dps which is ridiculous.

My point was your claim that even sync they were meant to be bulldozed.This is simply not true.This was the not the original design.
Devs not forseeing how it would work at higher levels is what has led to this.
Im not defending the guy you quoted just stating that your anology of them being meant to be bulldozed is incorrect and it can still pack a punch to newer players in a party who arent over geared or lvl synced regardless on The person you questioned's personal stats.

[cicatriz313]

My point was your claim that even sync they were meant to be bulldozed.This is simply not true.This was the not the original design.
Devs not forseeing how it would work at higher levels is what has led to this.
Im not defending the guy you quoted just stating that your anology of them being meant to be bulldozed is incorrect and it can still pack a punch to newer players in a party who arent over geared or lvl synced regardless on The person you questioned's personal stats.

If you're telling me that groups are still having trouble with titan hard mode NOW, I mean come on. I honestly don't know why you responded to nitpick about a point I made that was not really the point of my post, but yes even synced, Titan HM and Ravana HM are super super easy these days. I mean MAYBE if you have 8 friends all in level 50/60 grey gear would there be a problem, but not in DF most of the time.

Edit: Also yes, I bring up healers not DPSing, but yes other roles can be bad if they play at a minimum as well. AKA tanks only using threat combos, or DPS not using AOE.