What is a "bad player" to you?

[MsQi]

Bad players are:
Adrenaline junkies who don't care about story, lore, or worldling, and only play RPGs because they don't quite have the reflexes for FPSs.
People who buy story skips and level boosts for their first character.
People who only do what they need to gear up for and complete the latest raid and say there is no more content when they have only done 1% of it.

Those are all filthy, stinking casuals in my book.

[Liam_Harper]

Basically to me, two things.

-A player who refuses to adapt, listen or learn. You can be a fast learner or a really slow learner, that's fine. If you're willing to improve, you will make progress. If you refuse to improve, either by arrogance, putting the blame on others, expect a carry because "lul it's easy" or unwillingness to contribute, you never make progress.

-A player who refuses to offer help or advice, abuses other party members or is generally impatient, rushes because "lul it's easy" or leaves on the first wipe. This sort of player can have an Ultimate clear under their belt and be just as harmful or worse to the team than a new sprout who stands in the fire. They wreck team morale, cause wipes and mistakes by rushing due to other members being unprepared, ruin the focus of the group, contribute no help. You flat out don't want this type of player in your group.

[kidalutz]

To me a Bad player isn't someone who tries but rather the opposite. We all have off days or are new to something now and then and the stress level amps up when it seems like somethings going wrong. A Bad player is someone thats overconfident in thier abilities and wind up being far too lax in thier approach to thier role to the point that they will wall to wall pull and due to that lose aggro because their healer has to spam cures and sheilds like no tomorrow and then when the healers are low on mp go and pull more to the pile.

Lets not forget the healer that over DPSes and loses track of healing this happens alot more often than people think it would.

And then theres the DPS thats in such a rush that they wind up facepulling more mobs thinking the tank and the healer will pick up the raid pass often not realising that the tank is past thier safe limit or that the healer is running low from bad healing choices.

Not only these things but these selfsame players then have the gall to start berating and insulting other players usually sprouts for not doing it right. These are bad players noone else.

[hydralus]

Lets not forget the healer that over DPSes and loses track of healing this happens alot more often than people think it would.

I've had it happen maybe 1% of the time. Most healers in the game have been pretty good. I've honestly done well over 1k dungeons as a tank and it's not been an issue. Also, why would it be happening a lot more than people think it's happening? We're all playing the game, aren't we? Our collective perception IS what happens in the game.

[Vahlnir]

I've had it happen maybe 1% of the time. Most healers in the game have been pretty good. I've honestly done well over 1k dungeons as a tank and it's not been an issue. Also, why would it be happening a lot more than people think it's happening? We're all playing the game, aren't we? Our collective perception IS what happens in the game.

I just got out of an Orbonne run where this happened to a healer during the trash before Cid. Wasn't really a big deal tbh because, as you said, it honestly just doesn't happen very often. I could probably count on one hand the number of times I've seen it. I teased them about it momentarily and moved on. It's funny when it does happen, at least imo.

[Gaiinahat]

One time I accidentally joined a DF as a Marauder instead of a Warrior. I felt really bad that I messed that up, but the other players were really nice about it. We managed to get through it though. I love it when other people offer advice on how to play my classes. It makes the game more lively!

[Zukissa]

If I see the attitude of the group slowly turn for the worse due to repeated wipes I just leave the instance as there is nothing beneficial that can be said at that stage.

[hydralus]

I'll also add that I'm perfectly happy even if it's a LITTLE bit of extra damage. Even tossing an aero or the SCH DoTs is fine and dandy. Hell both WHM and SCH (and I assume AST too) have literal free OGCD damage skills in Assize and shadow flare so it would be pretty difficult to not do at least some damage.

[Jaywalker]

Honest question. Players who only want to share parties with people who are experienced and know their class cold, who follow their rotation by the book... why not just use party finder and include a small note that says you prefer to play with very experienced players who are confident in their rotation?

It's not reasonable to expect everyone to play this particular game the same way. It's not as simple as tic-tac-toe. Some people go in with an RP focus. Some people go with lore or glamour focus. Some go with mechanics focus. Some like a little of everything. You're only going to be disappointed if you go into duty finder and expect everyone there to conform to what you're looking for, and if your reaction to disappointment is to lash out then not only are you going to have a bad time, so will the other people there. Why do that when you have a better chance of getting what you want and not making others miserable in party finder?

This isn't a matter of whether you're allowed to give critique or not give critique. But there's a difference between going "hey X, you should be using Grit here" and going "GDI X stop being such a shitty dark knight and put Grit on you're slowing the whole party down". Having someone react badly to the former? Yeah, that's obnoxious. But the latter even if the critique was valid is going to wreck things all around when it didn't have to.

Again, I mean this all sincerely. If there's a reason party finder wouldn't address the problem I'd like to know. If it might address the problem but hasn't been tried then that's less frustration for everyone.

[Enjuden]

Honest question. Players who only want to share parties with people who are experienced and know their class cold, who follow their rotation by the book... why not just use party finder and include a small note that says you prefer to play with very experienced players who are confident in their rotation?

It's not reasonable to expect everyone to play this particular game the same way. It's not as simple as tic-tac-toe. Some people go in with an RP focus. Some people go with lore or glamour focus. Some go with mechanics focus. Some like a little of everything. You're only going to be disappointed if you go into duty finder and expect everyone there to conform to what you're looking for, and if your reaction to disappointment is to lash out then not only are you going to have a bad time, so will the other people there. Why do that when you have a better chance of getting what you want and not making others miserable in party finder?

This isn't a matter of whether you're allowed to give critique or not give critique. But there's a difference between going "hey X, you should be using Grit here" and going "GDI X stop being such a shitty dark knight and put Grit on you're slowing the whole party down". Having someone react badly to the former? Yeah, that's obnoxious. But the latter even if the critique was valid is going to wreck things all around when it didn't have to.

Again, I mean this all sincerely. If there's a reason party finder wouldn't address the problem I'd like to know. If it might address the problem but hasn't been tried then that's less frustration for everyone.

Bluntly, people lie all the time on how experienced they are in this game to join content they have or haven't done. Sometimes you're forced to do that (hello everything in Heavensward), others they're just doing it and hoping they get carried. I have experience in that since I had to BS my way through almost everything in Heavensward to even get in a party, to the point of upgrading other classes since the ones I picked were thrown out immediately (monk). All people have to do is pretend they're trying to do current content and have relevant dps. If they're performing below that, or worse, get the party killed multiple times, they get thrown out. And unfortunately, there's a lot of people that can't even do dps equal to a level 65 player, despite having all of the current gear. If they couldn't learn how to do well now, they will never be able to in the future.

You will never get people to listen to 'rules' of your PF at even playing to current patch because there is no accountability inside the game without EX/Savage content or third party websites. In that content, that rule is enforced all the time, because you have to perform at least at an above average level or you don't clear.

As for me, a bad player is a player who cannot perform at a relevant pace and also refuses to try to improve past that. IE doing damage that is good in 4.0 during 4.5 content as a dps. I expect a player to want to learn to play to the best of their ability, and at least try to. Will it take a while? Perhaps, but if they are willing to try to do so, and improve along the way, then that is fine.