What is a "bad player" to you?

[Selova]

I've been yelled at and harassed as a healer for not doing enough damage. I was yelled at by tanks for keeping them at full health. That's not improving myself. It's not making be better as I want to be better. When I play a healer, I do just that, play a healer. I loathe magic damage with a very firm passion. My overall least favorite anything in the game.

While I in no way, shape or form condone any level of harassment you are literally admitting that you want to be a better player/healer but you aren't willing to do what it takes to become a better player.

There isn't any reason to keep spamming healing spells onto people every time they take damage, there is not enough consistent damage going out to be doing that, all you are doing is wasting mp and over-healing like crazy. Pure healing roles don't exist in this game, there is no reason to be a pure healer nor any benefit to it outside of your personal distaste for dealing damage.

It honestly depends on what your mind set is when you decide to be a healer, you can either decide to just keep spamming your heals when healing isn't needed or you can decide that you want to be as helpful to your group as possible by throwing out damage when healing isn't required. The latter is what separates mediocre healers from great healers.

If you honestly want to aim to improve yourself you will strive and adapt to play your class to the best of your abilility that you are capable of doing. That's really all there is to it if that's your goal.

[Lilseph]

No, it's not. You only think that because that's what the world first guilds do and you're an elitist tryhard who mimics them.

No content but the very upper upper content at the given time relies on healer dps. It's been said MANY TIMES NOW by Yoshi P himself that no content is designed with healer dps in mind.

The metric to base yourself as a healer is simple, did people die?

I've died as a tank more time than I can count by bastard healers like you who focus too damn much on dps and fail to do their primary job.

You guys seem to think how low can you go is the healing norm.

This attitude right here it's why you don't improve. And that's why people will keep "harassing" you in DF. Keeping people alive is the bare minimum for a healer.

[MsQi]

Bad players are:
Adrenaline junkies who don't care about story, lore, or worldling, and only play RPGs because they don't quite have the reflexes for FPSs.
People who buy story skips and level boosts for their first character.
People who only do what they need to gear up for and complete the latest raid and say there is no more content when they have only done 1% of it.

Those are all filthy, stinking casuals in my book.

[hydralus]

1. This is a damage centric MMO, you healing is designed to be pretty goddamn powerful to facilitate dealing as much damage as possible on healing classes, if you "just want to heal", I'd maybe suggest another MMO, or not playing healer, cos healers in this game are designed to deal damage. Doing more damage is the defacto way to improve yourself as there's no other valuable metric to judge by.

I just want to piggyback on this and ask the name of the MMO where you're a healer that JUST heals because I want to know where people got this weird idea you're supposed to do nothing but spam HP restoration skills. I've played; Asheron's Call, Everquest 2, Tera, Aion, Asheron's Call 2, Dungeon and Dragons Online, Neverwinter, Champions Online, Guild Wars 2, Wakfu, Ragnarok Online, Vanguard, Wildstar, Archeage, and at least a half-dozen other MMOs I've forgotten the name of. In not a single one of them was the 'healer' expecting to do nothing but heal. It's driving me insane, where is the idea that 'I play a healer I should only heal' come from!?

In terms of the topic itself, first thing that comes to mind are people who refuse to use no-cost (as in an ogcD that doesn't reduce their output at all) aggro-reduction skills and strip aggro from the tank like you're proving a point that you're outdamaging their aggro generation.

[ltsquigs]

This attitude right here it's why you don't improve.

If they're clearing the content they are queueing for, why is it bad if they don't want to "improve" (which really means be optimal). Lots of people play this game entirely as a casual leisure activity, they aren't looking to be the number 1 players in their area, they're just looking to do the content for fun, and as long as they aren't actively hindering people from doing content I don't see why that makes them a "bad player" it just doesn't make them a raider.

On the flip side I have 100% had content fail because people got toxic over other people not doing their job "properly" and quitting dungeons mid dungeon, yelling at people getting them to quit, etc. That actively does cause people to fail content that should honestly never be failable and wastes everyones time. If people can't deal with the fact that not everyone has the same mind set as them in a game like this, they should go play single player games instead.

[Penthea]

A few answers to this:

If you're one of the healers who doesnt dps, and just heals, and a significant amount of healers actually do damage and keep parties alive while doing it, you are, in comparison to the whole, a bad player.

So are they bad players even if they keep everyone alive without risking the well-being of the party? I would be slow to call them bad because they can clearly do their primary role just fine. I would merely call them serviceable. Like a boring cheap car. It gets you from A to B but it's nothing special. I wouldn't bring them to savage for similar reasons why I wouldn't bring that unremarkable car to a F1 race. But for normal stuff both are fine even if they're not ideal.

A bad healer is someone who either cannot heal a normal combat situation effectively even when they try, or someone who plays their class as if they're in a savage team who carefully planned their healing spells and mitigation so they could pump out as much dps as possible, even though they're with a pug who made no such plans...and they continue to do so even though it's clear that more healing needs to be done.

Both of these are far worse than a pure healer who can keep everyone alive. Yes it's annoying when the healer does no dps when they clearly have time to, but healer dps is far from a requirement in normal mode content. I prefer to do things a bit slower and be confident that everyone will stay alive, rather than be stressing out because the healer acts like only mobs can lose hp. These healers are the bane of my existence when I play rdm. It's annoying that I have to stop dpsing and toss out heals to keep the tank alive because they're too busy pretending they're an all-star savage player to do the most basic requirements of their role properly.

The few times I have been curious enough about these players to look them up in fflogs, each time none of them had anything resembling impressive savage kills as healers, if any at all. Which is why I say "too busy pretending". Likely they read a healing guide intended for top tier savage raiding, and they lack the presence of mind to realise that this particular playstyle can be destructive if you just blindly do it all the time. This is definitely a definition of a bad player. Someone who copies what top tier savage raiders do without thinking about whether it's appropriate for the given situation or not.

[Liam_Harper]

Basically to me, two things.

-A player who refuses to adapt, listen or learn. You can be a fast learner or a really slow learner, that's fine. If you're willing to improve, you will make progress. If you refuse to improve, either by arrogance, putting the blame on others, expect a carry because "lul it's easy" or unwillingness to contribute, you never make progress.

-A player who refuses to offer help or advice, abuses other party members or is generally impatient, rushes because "lul it's easy" or leaves on the first wipe. This sort of player can have an Ultimate clear under their belt and be just as harmful or worse to the team than a new sprout who stands in the fire. They wreck team morale, cause wipes and mistakes by rushing due to other members being unprepared, ruin the focus of the group, contribute no help. You flat out don't want this type of player in your group.

[kidalutz]

To me a Bad player isn't someone who tries but rather the opposite. We all have off days or are new to something now and then and the stress level amps up when it seems like somethings going wrong. A Bad player is someone thats overconfident in thier abilities and wind up being far too lax in thier approach to thier role to the point that they will wall to wall pull and due to that lose aggro because their healer has to spam cures and sheilds like no tomorrow and then when the healers are low on mp go and pull more to the pile.

Lets not forget the healer that over DPSes and loses track of healing this happens alot more often than people think it would.

And then theres the DPS thats in such a rush that they wind up facepulling more mobs thinking the tank and the healer will pick up the raid pass often not realising that the tank is past thier safe limit or that the healer is running low from bad healing choices.

Not only these things but these selfsame players then have the gall to start berating and insulting other players usually sprouts for not doing it right. These are bad players noone else.

[Lilseph]

If they're clearing the content they are queueing for, why is it bad if they don't want to "improve" (which really means be optimal). Lots of people play this game entirely as a casual leisure activity, they aren't looking to be the number 1 players in their area, they're just looking to do the content for fun, and as long as they aren't actively hindering people from doing content I don't see why that makes them a "bad player" it just doesn't make them a raider.

On the flip side I have 100% had content fail because people got toxic over other people not doing their job "properly" and quitting dungeons mid dungeon, yelling at people getting them to quit, etc. That actively does cause people to fail content that should honestly never be failable and wastes everyones time. If people can't deal with the fact that not everyone has the same mind set as them in a game like this, they should go play single player games instead.

I disagree.

It's not about clearing the content or not, because yeah, you can spend 90 minutes in that dungeon and clear it, but I can assure you the majority of the players don't want that. It's about using all your tools. I beg of you, don't use extremes as an example. A healer that DPS isn't aspiring to become the #1 of the bunch, an elitist top tier raider that got lost in a dungeon with a bunch of casual. It's a player that realizes they have more buttons than Cure II and Medica and they want to support the party with these skills. It's the same thing than a DPS using their utility. Why should they do that? Their job is to DPS, not to regenerate your MP, not to mitigate the mob's damage, not to benefit the party with increased healing. It's the same: You have tools, use them. Healers have a huge arsenal of DPS skills and a lot of downtime when healing. So they can definitely pull this off. A tank doesn't have to remain at 100% of their HP ALL the time.

It is a bad player. I won't sugar coat this. FOR WHATEVER REASON YOU WANT, they are not using their class at with all their available tools.

Reminds me of this meme:



Also, if you read the person I quoted closely, they complain that they can't improve because they get "harassed". But if you explain to them how the game has been played for the past 5 years, they snap at you, calling you elitist wannabe and throw a fit how "I play my way". They were lacking the "You don't pay my sub" for the full meme. The advice of asking people that want to perform well to go and do pre-mades work both ways, by the way.

[hydralus]

Lets not forget the healer that over DPSes and loses track of healing this happens alot more often than people think it would.

I've had it happen maybe 1% of the time. Most healers in the game have been pretty good. I've honestly done well over 1k dungeons as a tank and it's not been an issue. Also, why would it be happening a lot more than people think it's happening? We're all playing the game, aren't we? Our collective perception IS what happens in the game.