What is a "bad player" to you?

[Zer0]

I think the community as a whole often times labels casuals instantly as bad players.

They claim "Doesn't improve or won't" as a reason. Like half the posts here, but their definition of improving differs from the other players definition.

I've been yelled at and harassed as a healer for not doing enough damage. I was yelled at by tanks for keeping them at full health. That's not improving myself. It's not making be better as I want to be better. When I play a healer, I do just that, play a healer. I loathe magic damage with a very firm passion. My overall least favorite anything in the game.

As a tank, which I've stopped doing, I don't know most dungeons. I don't tell people either. Why? Because going into a dungeon you're forced to do at 58 and saying you've never been here and don't know anything about it just means half the group will leave instantly.


This community thinks that they're the greatest in MMO gaming, but they're not. They're in fact, worse than other mmo's. Because only in this game do tanks and healers get harassed for lack of damage in addition to their core role.

[Jaywalker]

Honestly for me it's a rude player above all else. Players who just don't know how to do something and mess up can be helped and I mentally file more under "inexperienced" than bad, since they can always learn.

Main point of FFXIV as a game, to me, is to have fun. Even if you're dealing with a frustrating challenge, it should be fun to keep trying on some level. When players are actively rude, whether by being nasty or deeply inconsiderate (ex. ditching newbies who are watching a story-based cutscene for the first time even when they mention that's what's going on or ask for patience), to me that compromises the ability of other people to have fun while playing. More than that, it ruins fun to a degree that is way worse than just needing to be patient or dealing with some inconvenience.

It's like getting smacked in the face by someone you thought was friendly. Douses cold water on everything.

Edit: Aaaand I just saw previous pages debates lol. XD Honestly it seems like "bad player" might be semantically too broad for the different stuff people focus on. There's skill focus and there's overall experience focus as two different aspects of playing I think. My sense is people might be putting different levels of emphasis on skill versus overall experience. This seems almost like there's an unspoken question of "is it worse to be unskilled or to be mean" in a way, which people do seem to disagree on.

As a 2 cents thing... skill focus, for me, is more of a real life point. It's something I apply really hardcore to my work, which I love, but which remains on a completely different level compared to gaming. I like to be skilled in games, but it's not why I personally play. It's important to git gud and all haha, but when I see people get really serious about it to the point that they get honestly mad about lack of skill it feels like they're missing the point of a game and lack perspective. Games are literally there to make you happy. They don't get you a better paycheck, a better house. They can sometimes lead to real life friendships or relationships but that doesn't happen because of your skill level.

[ReiMakoto]

1. I've been yelled at and harassed as a healer for not doing enough damage. I was yelled at by tanks for keeping them at full health. That's not improving myself. It's not making be better as I want to be better. When I play a healer, I do just that, play a healer. I loathe magic damage with a very firm passion. My overall least favorite anything in the game.

2. As a tank, which I've stopped doing, I don't know most dungeons. I don't tell people either. Why? Because going into a dungeon you're forced to do at 58 and saying you've never been here and don't know anything about it just means half the group will leave instantly.

Just Focusing on these two things here.

1. This is a damage centric MMO, you healing is designed to be pretty goddamn powerful to facilitate dealing as much damage as possible on healing classes, if you "just want to heal", I'd maybe suggest another MMO, or not playing healer, cos healers in this game are designed to deal damage. Doing more damage is the defacto way to improve yourself as there's no other valuable metric to judge by.
2. Ive seen this happen a handful of times in my many years with this game. The only time I see people leave at the start is some tanks auto leaven aurum vale, or people leaving when they inspect a tanks gear and see its an expansion out of date in the vault.

[Zer0]

Just Focusing on these two things here.

1. This is a damage centric MMO, you healing is designed to be pretty goddamn powerful to facilitate dealing as much damage as possible on healing classes, if you "just want to heal", I'd maybe suggest another MMO, or not playing healer, cos healers in this game are designed to deal damage. Doing more damage is the defacto way to improve yourself as there's no other valuable metric to judge by.
2. Ive seen this happen a handful of times in my many years with this game. The only time I see people leave at the start is some tanks auto leaven aurum vale, or people leaving when they inspect a tanks gear and see its an expansion out of date in the vault.

No, it's not. You only think that because that's what the world first guilds do and you're an elitist tryhard who mimics them.

No content but the very upper upper content at the given time relies on healer dps. It's been said MANY TIMES NOW by Yoshi P himself that no content is designed with healer dps in mind.

The metric to base yourself as a healer is simple, did people die?

I've died as a tank more time than I can count by bastard healers like you who focus too damn much on dps and fail to do their primary job.

You guys seem to think how low can you go is the healing norm.

[Hazama999]

Being that this is an MMO, presumably centered around player interaction. I would probably put attitude and overall disposition at the forefront on whether or not a player is "bad."

I don't personally care all that much about how that person performs as long as they got a good attitude about it and are open to suggestions. You may not play well, but if you play well with others, you're alright in my book.

[AxlStream]

No, it's not. You only think that because that's what the world first guilds do and you're an elitist tryhard who mimics them.

No content but the very upper upper content at the given time relies on healer dps. It's been said MANY TIMES NOW by Yoshi P himself that no content is designed with healer dps in mind.

The metric to base yourself as a healer is simple, did people die?

I've died as a tank more time than I can count by bastard healers like you who focus too damn much on dps and fail to do their primary job.

You guys seem to think how low can you go is the healing norm.

Erm...If your only metric to being a good healer is "did people die?", chances are you are a bad player to many players. Tanks only need as much HP to survive the next hit, anything that pushes them over after the fact is meaningless except if it's to prep for a mechanic or such. I often go into fights without healing for 20-30 seconds at a time, relying only on my sustain from Storm's Path combo and mitigation rotated properly. I will concede that healers are usually reliant on how their party play to be seen as good but just going "nobody died so I'm doing great" is just doing a disservice to yourself and all your future parties and partners.

[Vahlnir]

I understand that with any player base there are many types of playstyles and varying degrees of skill. Typically, as long as someone is a decent person, I don't particularly care what their skill level is. But when it comes to certain pieces of content where there is very little room for error and someone simply can't or won't comprehend what they're being told...I have very little patience for that, admittedly. Sometimes people simply can't get it, and that is alright. Not everyone is meant for every piece of content in the game. If I get frustrated enough I will typically leave without saying a word, the whole "don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all" sorta deal. If I need to vent it is done outside the game through my own mouth where I can say whatever I want to myself. lol Just because someone isn't up to par doesn't mean they're a bad person or player per say, they just don't have the skill required to complete the content they're attempting. My definition of a "bad player" is someone who could in all likelihood improve themselves, but simply won't. That or someone who's a straight up jerk. My experience has been most of the time that they both go hand in hand.

[Penthea]

Someone who:

• is rude without provocation
• puts down others in order to elevate themselves
• expects more of others than they would expect of themselves
• acts like they were never a new player who also made mistakes
• acts like they're an expert on raiding just because they know what "the meta" is, even though they know little else about raiding
• will take any opportunity to display their superior knowledge or skill
• acts like "casual" is a synonym for "bad"
• flags themselves as an english, german, french and japanese speaker to get faster DF queues but then gets annoyed if they meet people who don't speak the language their game client is in
• wears a mentor crown in DF and then gets annoyed when they're expected to mentor. If you don't want to mentor, turn off your crown.

[HarryTipper]

No, it's not. You only think that because that's what the world first guilds do and you're an elitist tryhard who mimics them.

No content but the very upper upper content at the given time relies on healer dps. It's been said MANY TIMES NOW by Yoshi P himself that no content is designed with healer dps in mind.

The metric to base yourself as a healer is simple, did people die?

I've died as a tank more time than I can count by bastard healers like you who focus too damn much on dps and fail to do their primary job.

You guys seem to think how low can you go is the healing norm.

This right here would be a good example IMO.

The kind of player who, when confronted with an opposing opinion, immediately feels attacked and lashes out and resorts to name calling.

[Barraind]

It's been said MANY TIMES NOW by Yoshi P himself that no content is designed with healer dps in mind.

A few answers to this:

If you're one of the healers who doesnt dps, and just heals, and a significant amount of healers actually do damage and keep parties alive while doing it, you are, in comparison to the whole, a bad player. If you spend multiple cooldowns to do what you can do with 1, you are, relative to the whole, a bad player. And if you KNOW you can do it with less, and free up more time to optimize your output, but choose not to, you're square in the "willfully ignorant" pile.


Additionally, if you've played MMO's (or games in general), you'd learn not to take things people say about their content as gospel.

I've been assured, by Sony, Blizzard, Squenix, Nintendo, and others, that "x is working correctly" or "x content is not bugged" or "x is intended" only to see those be hotfixed, patched, removed, re-broken, swapped out or re-implemented.