Bard performance question

[Saradain]

Hello. I have a tricky question!

I am querying about a program. This program does not interact specifically with FFXIV in any way. It presses buttons based on the sequence that is loaded to the program, which, if FFXIV is the active window, translate into Bard Performance notes. The program does not target, modify or otherwise interact with FFXIV files, it just repeats a sequence of key presses, one action per button. It does not give me an in-game advantage over others as far as I can see.

I asked a GM through support ticket, I was given the usual copypasted answer about 3rd party programs being against the rules.

This however, prompted a counter-question or two from me:

1) DPS meters are allowed, being 3rd party program, as long as one does not use it to harass other players. This is a fact.

2) The program in question is not FFXIV specific, it can be used with anything that uses key presses to work - such as a virtual music keyboard, or other games that 100% allow it. Will I get banned for using that program even I am completely allowed to download it and use it with other stuff?

SE cannot possibly just scan my PC and declare I have an illegal program, they are not allowed to determine if I am able to download an all-around useful program for other usage. Bit rebellious about this as I am, I question if SE can even any way detect this program being used for FFXIV specifically, me having it on while having multiple games on, they cannot know to which game/thing I use the program for, I suspect.

Either way, this was my question. I do not intend to cheat in any way in-game, but I had to ask, so many loopholes and such for this particular matter.

[Penthea]

SE cannot possibly just scan my PC and declare I have an illegal program, they are not allowed to determine if I am able to download an all-around useful program for other usage. Bit rebellious about this as I am, I question if SE can even any way detect this program being used for FFXIV specifically, me having it on while having multiple games on, they cannot know to which game/thing I use the program for, I suspect.

I don't use any add-ons myself. I am making the following post based off what I know of add-ons from my time in WoW. I don't imagine they're much different when it comes to whether or not a source outside the player's pc can see traces of their use.

SE can't scan your pc but they have obviously unlimited access to every shred of information that passes through their game. For example any add-ons that put something into a chat-log leave information behind that SE could find. If an add-on functions like an in-game macro in some cases that could be something else they could find. The use of add-ons that communicate with each other across different accounts would be especially easy for them to track down.

And of course there's things that players themselves do, like talking about using them in-game or the forums, which could very well invite SE's curiosity depending on the context. Just by making this thread you have already highlighted yourself.

SE appear to have somewhat accepted that players will use add-ons. While officially it's against the ToS, unofficially their stance is "if it doesn't break any more of the ToS we will turn a blind eye".

I am querying about a program. This program does not interact specifically with FFXIV in any way. It presses buttons based on the sequence that is loaded to the program, which, if FFXIV is the active window, translate into Bard Performance notes.

However the add-on you're talking about could be seen as botting, because you're entering a entering a sequence that the software plays for you, instead of playing it yourself. While botting with the sole intention of only playing music is obviously minor when compared with normal botting, there's no guarantee SE will view it that way. They may have a firm stance against any sort of botting regardless of how trivial the commands are.

I personally would steer clear of using any add-on with any sort of automation because that could easily be seen as botting, especially now that you have announced your interest in its use in the official forums. You really should have asked this question elsewhere, where SE have no power and can't link your words to a player account.

[Saradain]

I don't use any add-ons myself. I am making the following post based of what I know of add-ons from my time in WoW. I don't imagine they're much different when it comes to whether or not a source outside the player's pc can see traces of their use.

SE can't scan your pc but they have obviously unlimited access to every shred of information that passes through their game. For example any add-ons that put something into a chat-log leave information behind that SE could find. If an add-on functions like an in-game macro in some cases that could be something else they could find. The use of add-ons that communicate with each other across different accounts would be especially easy for them to track down.

And of course there's things that players themselves do, like talking about using them in-game or the forums, which could very well invite SE's curiosity depending on the context. Just by making this thread you have already highlighted yourself.

SE appear to have somewhat accepted that players will use add-ons. While officially it's against the ToS, unofficially their stance is "if it doesn't break any more of the ToS we will turn a blind eye".



However the add-on you're talking about could be seen as botting, because you're entering a entering a sequence that the software plays for you, instead of playing it yourself. While botting with the sole intention of only playing music is obviously minor when compared with normal botting, there's no guarantee SE will view it that way. They may have a firm stance against any sort of botting regardless of how trivial the commands are.

I personally would steer clear of using any add-on with any sort of automation because that could easily be seen as botting, especially now that you have announced your interest in its use in the official forums. You really should have asked this question elsewhere, where SE have no power and can't link your words to a player account.

Thanks for the reply. I am not scared of being highlighted, I do not wish to use something that is confirmed to be illegal. I must add that the program in question requires a MIDI file to work, you can't really enter a sequence that would, for example, act as your Job rotation, nor does it automate pathing/moving of any kind to an NPC/gathering node, for example. The program is solely made for Bard performance, nothing else.

[noxen]

Eeeh... It still looks like a rocky grey area though because it's automating -something-; i.e the bard performances. SE's detection system might not realise what you're using is for harmless fun and see it as botting. I don't know the first thing about these kinds of programs but I wouldn't risk it until you got absolute clarity, either from the techsavvy amung the community or straight from the horses mouth.

[Freyt]

DPS meters are against the rules.

[Saradain]

DPS meters are against the rules.

No, they are not, you just don't talk about them, you just don't harass people with them. Or do you think SE is going to ban 95% of the playerbase?

[JunseiKei]

Hello. I have a tricky question!

I am querying about a program. This program does not interact specifically with FFXIV in any way. It presses buttons based on the sequence that is loaded to the program, which, if FFXIV is the active window, translate into Bard Performance notes. The program does not target, modify or otherwise interact with FFXIV files, it just repeats a sequence of key presses, one action per button. It does not give me an in-game advantage over others as far as I can see.

I asked a GM through support ticket, I was given the usual copypasted answer about 3rd party programs being against the rules.

This however, prompted a counter-question or two from me:

1) DPS meters are allowed, being 3rd party program, as long as one does not use it to harass other players. This is a fact.

2) The program in question is not FFXIV specific, it can be used with anything that uses key presses to work - such as a virtual music keyboard, or other games that 100% allow it. Will I get banned for using that program even I am completely allowed to download it and use it with other stuff?

SE cannot possibly just scan my PC and declare I have an illegal program, they are not allowed to determine if I am able to download an all-around useful program for other usage. Bit rebellious about this as I am, I question if SE can even any way detect this program being used for FFXIV specifically, me having it on while having multiple games on, they cannot know to which game/thing I use the program for, I suspect.

Either way, this was my question. I do not intend to cheat in any way in-game, but I had to ask, so many loopholes and such for this particular matter.

DPS meters aren't allowed by SE's own rules. The program used for parsing reads memory and doesn't interact with XIV directly. It's more of a don't ask, don't tell. They know people use it, but unless people say something in game that is incriminating evidence, they aren't going to go after you (like speaking about numbers in game you wouldn't know unless you have the program and were running it - that is incriminating evidence of use of a third party program), because as I said, it is against the rules.

Square Enix can't go "you can't have macro programs on your PC" even if they can check your registry and see the program there.

However, this part in the ToS could argue that it's botting and/or automated software:

2.1 Cheating and Botting. You may not create or use any unauthorized cheats, bots, automation software, hacks, mods or any other unauthorized software or hardware designed to modify the Game and gameplay. In addition, you may not take advantage of game system bugs and exploits during gameplay.

This further fits into what the program you're describing:

■Behaviour that disrupts the game balance
Square Enix strictly prohibits the use of third-party programs or tools – including programs and tools that permit automated or “absentee” play – in Final Fantasy XIV. Accordingly, the following activities are prohibited:

- Modifying, analysing, integrating, and/or reverse engineering game software or data.
- Creating, distributing, using, or promoting utilities that interact with the game.
- Exploiting Square Enix programming bugs or glitches.
- Automating gameplay processes.

Square Enix strictly prohibits the use of third-party programs or tools – including programs and tools that permit automated or “absentee” play – in Final Fantasy XIV. Accordingly, the following activities are prohibited. The Game Master (GM) may speak to players to investigate and confirm “absentee” play, and if the player continues with this behavior, contrary to the GM's instructions, this will be treated as “absentee” play and subject to penalties. The following behaviour is also prohibited.

Basically, the GM answered you exactly what your query was already.

[Saradain]

Thank you for your insightful post, JunseiKei!

It starts to look like I have to learn songs on my own, so I will abstain from downloading the said program. I had high hopes for this, knowing plenty of people who in fact use a program to play songs, but... I am not willing to risk my account for something so innocent as performing for friends

[Dustytome]

edit: Disregard my post, JunseiKei posted up nearly exactly what I had gathered up.

[Seraphor]

Given that parsers arent allowed, but SE practice this 'don't ask don't tell' policy around them, you could still be forgiven for thinking you could get away with it despite those rules posted above.

So it helps to get some insight into their mindset in regards to bards Performance.
One thing people have requested in the past is the ability to macro Performance skills, to be able to 'save' and 'replay' a song I guess.
But SE have flat out rejected this, because they want performance to be based on skill, and not automated.

So no, they're not likely to allow it.