BA shows that we fail as a Community (big time)

[Deceptus]

Part of it is on the community.

Most of it is on the Developers.

When you design systems that have potential for abuse and put enticing rewards behind them, they get abused.

This isn't rocket surgery. Hell, casuals in the community can BARELY beat the 24 mans, and generally this is only accomplished by healers carrying them through rezes. What makes the developers think they can attempt savage level dungeon? Even Savage players need a rez from time to time.

IMHO one of two things needs to happen:

1) They need to nerf it so it can be completed by the average Eureka group. Savage content has absolutely no business being in Eureka which for the past 3 iterations has been extremely casual content. If you want Savage content there is specialized content for that outside of Eureka.

2) They basically remove BA from Eureka and let you queue for it outside of Eureka and rebalance the whole thing (remove requirement of support fate) while keeping the difficulty high.

[Lacan]

I guess the problem is expecting like, 56 people to be able to do relatively tricky mechanics right. :v you're lucky if you can get 24 randoms who can do stuff right, when you more than double it you've got a giant powder keg ready to explode. That's why we've turned to making premade groups for content that clearly wasn't designed for that.

I think the only way to fix it is to nerf BA into the ground or change how you enter it entirely. We're not going to be able to fix the people aspect of it since we're always going to try for the path of least resistance. For NA players that is joining a discord and trying to get a clear that way.

[Lazael]

BA should have been a queue system at the very least, i want to do it and i can only enter if i get a rare spot from the community discord, thats bullshit. Been into it only 2 times in the past week when it should have been upward to 20 runs. This just shows that SE severely needs better game designer. They do rookie mistakes.

[Celenia]

I guess the problem is expecting like, 56 people to be able to do relatively tricky mechanics right. :v you're lucky if you can get 24 randoms who can do stuff right, when you more than double it you've got a giant powder keg ready to explode. That's why we've turned to making premade groups for content that clearly wasn't designed for that.

I think the only way to fix it is to nerf BA into the ground or change how you enter it entirely. We're not going to be able to fix the people aspect of it since we're always going to try for the path of least resistance. For NA players that is joining a discord and trying to get a clear that way.

It is not about ohhhh content too hard. The problem is more to how limited is the number of instance. If it is like diadem Emergency Mission, which every party in diadem can join, the problem will be not this huge. Sure the fight is still hard, but the more people can go inside, they will learn faster. Which mean the clear number will increase each week.

[Lacan]

It is not about ohhhh content too hard. The problem is more to how limited is the number of instance. If it is like diadem Emergency Mission, which every party in diadem can join, the problem will be not this huge. Sure the fight is still hard, but the more people can go inside, they will learn faster. Which mean the clear number will increase each week.

yea, that would be the ideal solution. Problem is that I don't think the game can handle that many players being inside at the same time. Even now I have issues with stuff vanishing when I get too many players on screen (like during an eureka NM). I can only imagine it being way worse if we let everyone into BA at the same time.

[Liam_Harper]

The only thing I'd disagree with is generalizing "we as a community" when in actual fact a large number of players are nice, friendly, want to cooperate, contribute to their groups, have fun and be sensible and it's a small handful of individuals who are the main reason we can't have nice things. Discord servers aren't out to exclude the peasants and be elitist, they're just a group of normal players trying to coordinate and put in the effort to beat difficult content together.

That small handful that griefs and trolls in every way they can just because it's "allowed" or there's a loophole to avoid punishment, expects carries, entitlements, abuses other players over tiny details and so on. The players that make it necessary for every piece of content to be restricted, tuned down or limited in some way to soften the impact of griefing and abuse as much as possible.

Those players are a small minority, they don't represent our community. But they certainly impact the enjoyment of gaming for everyone.

[Sapphire_Dianta]

Part of it is on the community.

Most of it is on the Developers.

When you design systems that have potential for abuse and put enticing rewards behind them, they get abused.

This isn't rocket surgery.

IMHO they need to nerf it so it can be completed by the average Eureka group. Savage content has absolutely no business being in Eureka which for the past 3 iterations has been extremely casual content. If you want Savage content there is specialized content for that outside of Eureka.

This is right on the money. When you develop any kind of multiplayer game, you need to know how to direct your community. This can be as simple as providing rewards to incentivize people to run old content (see: the daily roulettes), but it also covers the application and use of systems meant to discourage abuse and promote teamplay. Honestly, Square Enix should have seen these BA problems coming from a mile away. You lock a limited number of portals to a super-hard piece of content that will only be cleared with pre-made groups, fill it with enticing rewards, and then drop it smack dab in the middle of another piece of content (Eureka Hydatos) that is comparatively more pug-friendly and casual-friendly, and then fail to add any systems to discourage abusing said limited number of portals, and you've got a recipe for disaster.

[Metalwrath]

The only thing I'd disagree with is generalizing "we as a community" when in actual fact a large number of players are nice, friendly, want to cooperate, contribute to their groups, have fun and be sensible and it's a small handful of individuals who are the main reason we can't have nice things. Discord servers aren't out to exclude the peasants and be elitist, they're just a group of normal players trying to coordinate and put in the effort to beat difficult content together.

That small handful that griefs and trolls in every way they can just because it's "allowed" or there's a loophole to avoid punishment, expects carries, entitlements, abuses other players over tiny details and so on. The players that make it necessary for every piece of content to be restricted, tuned down or limited in some way to soften the impact of griefing and abuse as much as possible.

Those players are a small minority, they don't represent our community. But they certainly impact the enjoyment of gaming for everyone.

I really wish that was true but unfortunatly its not.On Zodiark its a smaller player base and a much better community.Even the way hunting is done on our server it's like living on a different planet compared to other servers with hunts.I hope that doesnt change on Zodiark but likely as the player base increases it likely will.
24 man raids and PF on Chaos centre is perfect example of this.For the amount of people that want to help there is also an equal amount who dont and troll and rage.
The amount of stories i hear from fc members on a daily basis over DF about the things that are going on in their parties.
The fact is the gaming community as a whole is failing and has become progressivly worse over the years.Its not limited to one game.Its a selfish attitude that grows every day.
Although maybe its just because gaming is too big now and it attracts the wrong kind of players.
The only way things are going to get better is if gamers stop trying to blame devs and other players for their own conduct.
There's only so much a company can do to stop players being jerks in online games.

[Sheriyana]

I kinda wish SE would quit trying new stuff. Every time they do it either turns out horrible, (Diadem, Eureka, BLU), or only the "hardcore" fan base like it. (Deep Dungeon challenge floors, Ultimate fights.) Not to mention we lost a Dungeon, Hildabrand Trials (which have been gone since ARR), MSQ Trials like Crysalis (Which I think have been gone since ARR?). I'd rather they work on making the content that does work better. Tying some of the things to the MSQ like 8 man raids, 24 man raids, and the primal fights so that it seems like all the extra stuff we are doing is impacting the world. Let the Devs make more mahjong games in their free time. Of course this is just my opinion so... probably doesn't matter in the long run to SE lol.

If you mean just trials that are part of the MSQ, we had Ravana, Bismarck, Thordan and Nidhogg in HW and Susano, Lakshmi, Shinryu and Tsukuyomi in SB. Technically Steps of Faith also came out after the Chrysalis.

[Kuroka]

Why not make it BA like that ? In addition, make BA another instance thus the instance not hogging 48 or 56 hydatos player space (if you die level down and throw out to kugane directly).

BC the one time i managed to get to Raiden after half our groups died the game already had a hard time here... i dont think the game could handle so many players on ONE boss.


But still im shocked how some ppl just cant relate to ppl not wanting to deal with Discord or smt.... *sigh*