A Realm Reborn Revamp / Lack of Race Diversity / Class locked glamours

[yukiiyuki]

How will reworking the ARR MSQ further entice your friends to join?

Because pre 50 MSQ is boring, and if you personally dont see any problems with that, I shared my personal statistics, the one who started thread said about 1 person of 10 who stayed, but you blindly trying defend things that you like, rejecting reality.

Hopefully by the time they get to Alphascape V2.0 they're not asking why this fight is so significant to the WoL.

Dont worry, even I dont know it and keep playing a game.

They could rework entirely the old game content, but that's all what they should really do.

This will be good, most people enjoy HW story and dont see any problem pass lvl 50.

[MistakeNot]

And there where you wrong, I didn't liked the start of the game and almost dropped it, my friends almost did the same. But we love the game and its world and spend for like 1.5k hours in it at this point. Do you think we read all the story quests? Nope, the only interesting part was the HW story, ARR and SB was boring for us all. But we loved the bosses, dungeons, raids and even eureka is somewhat decent.
That's what I'm trying to say, you don't need to enjoy the story to play the game and have fun with it, if they rework at least ARR MSQ even I could bring like 5 of my other friends to the game, and I will think many others will give the game another chance, game needs to evolve, grow and change.

That's the "secret club" I'm talking about. By the way, how it can be good for you personally, that people don't buy the game, don't give more money to developers so you could enjoy even more content with higher budget they will have. Maybe if we had like at least 4 or 5 million active subs, we wont had loading screens in the city that they split in half for PS3 limitations, textures from 2004, more developers to give us more character creation choices and many other stuff including new servers. You, the player, should be interested in the game growth and company making more revenue from the new players, demanding QoL changes from the developers, looking at statistics and the problems of the game.

I am not against more people joining the game. I am against the game changing in ways that make it less interesting to me.
The story parts of the game are what mainly interests me. Dungeons, raids, and such could easily be cut down by half and I wouldn't miss them.
In short, the things you think is good about the game are what I find uninteresting, while the parts I find good are what you find boring. The developers can't please us both at the same time.

Oh, and one more thing - more income from this game would not necessarily translate to more development resources for it. That money might just as well go to other projects at SE - and some of the money will certainly go that way.

[Gemina]

Because pre 50 MSQ is boring, and if you personally dont see any problems with that, I shared my personal statistics, the one who started thread said about 1 person of 10 who stayed, but you blindly trying defend things that you like, rejecting reality.

Pre 50 MSQ is important for establishing the WoL. Whether or not this is important to you is irrelevant because it's important to the dev team and those who do care about the lore of the WoL. I'm not the one rejecting reality when you fail to acknowledge the importance of the MSQ, can't see that it's actually the best way to level your first job, and also don't see that trimming it down accomplishes diddly squat, especially when it comes to enticing new players to join. If you want more dungeons, more raids, more of everything you enjoy; the devs simply can't be bothered reworking older content to cater to potential subscribers that may or may not be on board.

Dont worry, even I dont know it and keep playing a game.

That's really unfortunate. Especially considering you enjoyed HW so much. But hey, whatever works for you.

Perhaps if you want your friends to join so badly and are SO against the ARR story, then why not buy their jump potions for them? Hopefully they don't bail when they see that they're still forced to grind through content to get caught up.

BTW, I didn't think ARR was boring at all and loved it. Is my opinion on older content any more or less valid than yours? No? I didn't think so. But I'm also not asking for time to be utterly wasted reworking that content when I'd much rather move forward.

[Vespar]

I've no problem with ARR MSQ, but I do feel like there should be some additional contents added in beyond just PotD for levelling up 1-60. I'd also love to see them stop adding jobs at 50+ but rather at lvl 30 (or lower) like they did with DRK and whatnot. Also dont have jobs restricted to a locked zone. (ie. Ishgard)

As for glamour being unrestricted... I personally feel that only Weapon and Artifact armor should be restricted. Everything else should be fair game. You wanna be a Heavy Armored Mage GO FOR IT! Or a thin-clothed tank.. Be my guest. Weapon determines the job, if people cant tell what job you are simply check the person. Its that simple. As it is, many level 1 glamours already have me checking folks sometimes if they have their weapon hidden while not in combat.
Not that big a deal. Only Artifact should be restricted as its part of the lore of jobs so that makes sense... Nothing else being restricted really does.

[Melichoir]

It would throw it out the window; if that was the position they wish to hold, but I've actually never read it anywhere of them making this statement. While I am sure that the devs appreciate it when players stick to form when choosing the glamours for their chosen job; if they were adamant about them looking a certain way, the pig suit type glamours would not exist. What I think gets misconstrued is when restrictions are placed on gear, it is the gear that they want to maintain an identity with; not the job/role that wears it.

Maybe its a mandela effect or something akin to that, but I remember one of the Devs addressing it a long time back stating that they wanted to keep certain classes with a certain look and feel with the game, hence why theres no cross class/job equipment when it comes to glamour.

This goes back to my previous statement. If they did this, they might as well abolish restrictions all together. There'd be no point as absolutely nothing would have an identity anymore. The moment they lift the restriction on a WHM Cleric's robe, the exclusivity that is intended for that piece of gear goes right out the window. This will never happen during this game's lifetime, or at least so long as Yoshi-P is at the helm.

Actually there is some middle ground to how this can be handled. We could boil down gear into 3 categories:

Class Specific
Race Specific
Job Specific

The new system could function in this manner: Gear broadly is broken down to be wearable by both Class and Job. So this would be like seeing a piece of armor that has GLD PLD MAR WAR DRK. With the new Glamour system as proposed, Anyone can glamour into this so long as they have the appropriate Job leveled (In this case, a GLD or MAR to the appropriate level).

For gear that remains very class specific - such as Relic Gear - That gear is not able to be glamoured to other Jobs. So if it just says PLD or DRK, you cant glamour into it regardless if you have the appropriate level. This would keep some gear reserved for a class.

Race specific gear needs to be changed all together that you can buy the version of that gear regardless of race (Hempen Camise comes to mind).

The Alternative to this would be simply create a new designation on all gear that states whether or not it is cross Glamour-able. So much like if it could be traded, converted, or overmelded, a new designation on the gear would state if its cross glamour-able. If set to no, then only the class its built for can do it. Again, this would allow for class specific gear to remain while opening up other gear to all classes so players get the look and feel they want.

[Gemina]

Maybe its a mandela effect or something akin to that, but I remember one of the Devs addressing it a long time back stating that they wanted to keep certain classes with a certain look and feel with the game, hence why theres no cross class/job equipment when it comes to glamour.

Someone would have to provide a specific statement from Yoshi or one of the other devs, but the WHM reference actually isn't mine. I took that from one of his statements when asked about cross glamours. But I agree strongly with it. But it's also just putting two and two together. We simply cannot dispute that SE isn't against jobs and roles appearing differently than the traditional look for that job because they have allowed it. However, this does not mean that they are not allowed to place restrictions on gear they only want specific roles or jobs to wear.

Actually there is some middle ground to how this can be handled.

I agree 100% but I feel SE has already compromised on this matter. You can dress up as a snowman, ghost, or pig; you can tank in a bikini, and there are robe choices for tanks and armored sets for healers. When players ask for race/gender/job specific restrictions to be removed, that is when players like me come in and say, "give them an inch, and they will take a mile."

It is OKAY to have restrictions based on race, gender, job, and role. Hell, even the Grand Company you choose. And it is a good thing that players can represent each of these in unique ways if they would like to. That is not to say that they can't loosen up on some of the restrictions a bit because I believe they can. I don't want to leave the impression that I don't share in the frustration of not being able to glamour something I would like to make a look I'm going for complete.

[Melichoir]

I agree 100% but I feel SE has already compromised on this matter. You can dress up as a snowman, ghost, or pig; you can tank in a bikini, and there are robe choices for tanks and armored sets for healers. When players ask for race/gender/job specific restrictions to be removed, that is when players like me come in and say, "give them an inch, and they will take a mile."

It is OKAY to have restrictions based on race, gender, job, and role. Hell, even the Grand Company you choose. And it is a good thing that players can represent each of these in unique ways if they would like to. That is not to say that they can't loosen up on some of the restrictions a bit because I believe they can. I don't want to leave the impression that I don't share in the frustration of not being able to glamour something I would like to make a look I'm going for complete.

I think that people wouldnt call that a compromise simply because while those outfits are fun, thats not what people are asking for ultimately.

Lets go to the extremes then, just for the sake of discussion: What would be the downside to a complete unlock?

The cons is yeah, you will get some players small group of players who will yuk it up to the max and make the most ridiculous glamours. But since we already have the off chance ones (swim wear, pig/chocobo/etc) what would drastically change? Are we honestly expecting we'll start seeing a majority of BLMs wearing PLD gear, and PLDs Running around looking like BRDs, and BRDS decked out in WAR gear like a power metal band? If people have a specific vision of their character in a fantasy world that already allows for a tank to run around in a swimsuit and pig head, why are there restrictions in place. Because realistically, were not even arguing if ti should be a thing or not, but rather where to draw the line at.

In regards to race specific/GC specific/etc, theres no reason why that cant be unlocked. That gear is generally glamour/starter gear and has 0 to do with class recognition (or even race recognition after 20 minutes of play). If were gonna allow people to glamour, then restricting it to race is a really silly position because it doesnt stand for anything after 20 minutes of play. GC glamours would mean more if GCs meant more. But they dont. The choice in GC is arbitrary at this point in the game, outside of a few titles and maybe a mount and a glamour. But we can swap GCs at will now so there isnt anything stopping someone from getting other glamours or even titles.

At the end of the day, its giving players what they want : More creative freedom to design their character. And I would hazard most players arent going to glamour into really trolly looking glamours for their class. If that were the case, wed see more of it now, but its a blue moon when I run into a healer or tank whos wearing a swimsuit into a duty.

[Bright-Flower]

The most lulzy glamours are already cross roll anyway. Removing the restrictions on most gear, say save GC alignment and job specific artifact armor, would not quite be the floodgate people sometimes say. You can already tank in a bikini. Already heal in a pig suit. The armors that are locked are generally not nearly as ridiculous as the job neutral costumes and items we have. So I really don't see any harm.

On the other hand, take red mage, where a good deal of aiming gear fits them better than classic wizard robes do.

I can understand if maybe there are technical reasons why remove these restrictions would be a big deal. But would it really do any damage if I say tanked in the Lost Allagan Healing set as opposed to tanking in a bikini, the shisui or sky rat tank sets, a yakuta, several emperer's new glamour pieces, etc ?

The flood gates to ridicuous glamours are ALREADY OPEN. The things that ARE role locked right now would be a drop in the bucket when it comes to silly/meme/trolly glams.

[Gemina]

I think that people wouldnt call that a compromise simply because while those outfits are fun, thats not what people are asking for ultimately.

Lets go to the extremes then, just for the sake of discussion: What would be the downside to a complete unlock?

Rivers and seas boiling.
40 years of darkness.
Human sacrifice.
Dogs and cats, living together.
Mass hysteria!

Sorry, I had to. In all seriousness though, in terms of gameplay? Absolutely nothing. But that's not what this is about. It is simply about glamour. This isn't something I weight the pros and cons with, and even if I did; the pros would win the favor of most. It's more about maintaining a certain level of principle, integrity, and traditionalism within the game. It's the same reason why WHM doesn't use swords; why Ifrit, Shiva and Titan are always associated with the elements of fire, ice and Earth respectively; and why a Cleric's Robe will never be able to be worn by any other job other than WHM.

There are far more pros than cons with lifting all the restrictions, but the con weighs the heaviest because it compromises those values I just spoke of. Even if they don't mean a whole to us; they mean a great deal to Yoshi, the dev team, and long term fans of the franchise. So when I see that they restrict a piece of gear for whatever reason, I simply respect their decision to do so.

[linay]

If you can glamour any gear to any job, then the need/greed rule would not make any sense.

There would be no reason to not be able to need on any gear on any job that can use it, even if only for glamour. In fact, considering one character can be any job and only the (main?) weapon really identifies the job, there would be no reason to not be able to wear any gear on any job.

The need/greed rule is useful, please think of the children need/greed rule.