We want to play the expansions Jobs with the starting character.

[LeoLupinos]

I'm one of the players that got hyped to play FFXIV because of a Job that is only unlocked at high level. It's incredible frustrating to play the entire ARR, and man, it's not a fast travel, just to play your desired Job.

I'm here because I know a lot of friends that share the same frustration, and I want to suggest improvement for starting Jobs. The fact that they didn't showed any of the changes to the battle system makes me worry, and encourages me to call for this suggestion.

Similar to the Minstrel's Ballad (Ex versions of Trials), there could be in the starting cities a new NPC that can reward you with Special Job Crystals, so that you can charge it up, and give it back to him. These crystals will only let you level up until the level of the starting quest of the Job, then you need to return this "Charged" Job Crystal to the NPC. This NPC will also reward you with a special weapon that functions similar to the Aetheryte Earring, auto syncing the stats based on the player level, until the level of the first weapon available. Obviously, the player need to buy the proper expansion to have access to the Job.

For example, if the players choose Red Mage to be the first Job in the character creation he will receive the special weapon, which will auto sync up to lvl 50 where the first weapon is available, and the special Job Crystal, unlocking the level up to 50. To progress you need to complete the RDM unlock quest, and retrieve the Special Job Crystal to the NPC.

Now, for Dark Knight, Machinist and Astrologian, they will need to change the quests to not give Job Actions up to level 50, where we can access Ishgard. So that these jobs can auto learn actions by leveling and start learning through quests at 50+. Or remake the quests up to Lv 50.

Or, Ultimately, simply by letting the player choose the first Job from character creation, implying that the player had that Job before arriving into Eorzea.

Edit: Maybe the answer to this is to create Classes to expansion Jobs that start in the starting cities, with minor lore. Then, let's say AST, by reaching Ishgard with the class, then he can learn the Job.


I say game-play first. FFXIV is turning into a really big game and SE really needs to address new players experience. Looking at you ARR MSQ too. I think that it's not good to keep improving and letting old OBLIGATORY content not showing today's quality. Is it the right decision to just say to the new players to pay to skip old content? Old content is worth experiencing in my opinion. It was not easy to play with a Job that I didn't like just to play Dark Knight. I felt rushed, the MSQ felt too long, I've skipped some of it just because of this system, just to play Dark Knight. I don't want anybody to feel encouraged to rush through the MSQ just to be happy.

TL;DR Let the players be happy since start, don't place the MSQ as a villain to those who only want to experience the MSQ first time with the Job they want. The reason they are locked behind high levels is not enough for me.

[Enkidoh]

As much as Yoshi himself hates the original classes and knows how unwieildly the system is to design for, unfortunately it's a necessary evil to retain them (and to always do so). For a start it would require a LOT of alterations to both the setting, lore and story dialogue to reflect removing classes.

For instance, replacing GLA completely with it's PLD Job upgrade would require the entire lore of Ul'dah to be rewritten as the Colleseum (the GLA's Guild) is a fundamental aspect of it - Raubahn is a GLA who won his way to the Syndicate due to his prowress on the arena, and it inspires others to take up the sword and shield accordingly. And those that distinguish themselves are invited by the Sultansworn Elite, the PLDs who serve as Ul'dah's royal guard, to learn their secret sword and shield techniques, fusing them with your gladiatorial skills into your own form of fighting.

This would all have to be replaced and would make no sense at all in the existing lore as to how the secretive skills of the PLD are suddenly known by a newbie adventurer just arrived in the citystate (the level skip items handwave it as being that you've simply imagined yourself as being that Job reading the exploits of another adventurer who did all the work). Then multiply that by all the starting Disciplines of War and Magic in the game, and it will show the mammoth task that would be required to do so.

End result, it just won't happen. They won't add new classes, but they won't remove the existing ones, they're a fundamental part of the game required by it's design.

Also, removing classes would potentially open a new can of worms in the form of 1.0/Legacy players who can import their 1.0 character data into the game, which specifically requires the original class data to be present in ARR's client to work (FFXIV 1.0 is where the starting classes originated - the 'upgrade to a Job' system was added to 1.0 later in a patch). And they are not going to throw 1.0 players under the bus like that again by removing classes and preventing them importing their data accordingly after the whole 1.0 debacle resulted in ARR's development in the first place.

Also, before you pass judgement, FFXIV's predecessor FFXI also restricted you to starting as a handful of original Jobs - you couldn't start as DRK in FFXI either but had to get a starting Job to level 30 first and then unlock the 'advanced Job'. So this is hardly unusual.

Think of it this way. You're a new adventurer, you're learning the ropes with combat. An expansion Job is thus advanced combat - you have to learn to crawl before you can walk, and to walk before you can run. You can't just run the moment of your birth after all.

[Iscah]

I value story as well as gameplay, and you would have to shred SO much lore to make this work. The class quests can't just be cut off, and the MCH and AST quests, in particular, are uniquely Ishgardian and couldn't simply be relocated elsewhere. Meanwhile DRK relies on where you are in the story, rather than the location.


EDIT: Enkidoh beat me to it, and in much better detail.

[SenorPatty]

Problem's the starting location for some of these jobs and subsequently, the location for some of those job quests.

For example, I could see Red Mage getting an easy pass for a change in lore but SAM would be out of place. AST, iirc, is solidly locked in Ishgard. DRK could get some leeway as some of its quest is not bound in Ishgard but...

Well in any case, I can see a "free pass" of sorts to start any job you want being implemented much, much later in the game. Right now, the more feasible things SE could start doing is rework ARR quests and actually let players pick NIN at the starting screen.

[LeoLupinos]

Snip

To get rid of classes they don't need to remove the lore about classes, they just need to don't let players start with one.
Look at musketeer, the NPC's have the lore, but Machinist is not connected to it. The same will be to GLA, as you pointed, the NPCs will still be GLA, but the player will start with a PLD Job. A PLD can still do the classes quests, because there's a special link to GLA.

Anyway, the focus of this thread was not the removal of class, but to be able to start with Expansions Jobs.
Maybe just keep the classes then, but elaborate this system to allow expansions Jobs to be unlocked at Lvl 1. I will edit the OP to keep the discussion focused into that.

If we have the Job Crystal, then we can get these "secretive" Job Actions because of the past owner.
But since you're only leveling with that special job crystal until the unlocking Job quest then you're not technically learning any secretive higher level actions.

Maybe the answer to this is to create Classes to expansion Jobs that start in the starting cities, with minor lore. Then, let's say AST, by reaching Ishgard with the class, then he can learn the Job.

[linay]

They would need another calamity to effectively reset the starting point without changing lore...oh wait...5.0...tragedy greater than the 7th umbral calamity that must be undone...history must be unwritten...

[Allegor]

Ironically, it'd be [relatively] easier to create a class for DRK, MCH, and AST and have them upgrade to jobs once reaching Ishgard, than rewriting their entire setting. Those 3 are directly linked to that location and/or part of the story, so I highly doubt it'll happen. As for SAM, RDM and BLU, I think they're fine as is.

[NocturniaUzuki]

I think it would be sensible to have expansion jobs start at Lv. 1, with a free pass to 50 or 60 if you already did the MSQ up to that point. This way, new players can start on the jobs they want.

However, I agree that changing it now is an issue. In the future, if possible, job quests should be based in starter areas. Though I wouldn't want ALL of them to be, or it'll get cluttered.

[Callinon]

I have a friend who explicitly wanted to be a RDM and immediately uninstalled his free trial the instant I told him he had to get to level 50 and finish the 2.0 story first.

This is a thing I called out when the HW jobs were gated behind the entire 2.x line.

I'll restate what I said then: when you advertise a new expansion and put the new jobs front and center (which you should!), people are going to want to play them. That doesn't seem super unreasonable to me. They want to play what you showed them. But then they have an ever-growing mass of content between them and the job they're actually interested in playing. There's no reason for it, let the people play the cool jobs you're dangling in front of them.

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

I have a friend who explicitly wanted to be a RDM and immediately uninstalled his free trial the instant I told him he had to get to level 50 and finish the 2.0 story first.

This is a thing I called out when the HW jobs were gated behind the entire 2.x line.

I'll restate what I said then: when you advertise a new expansion and put the new jobs front and center (which you should!), people are going to want to play them. That doesn't seem super unreasonable to me. They want to play what you showed them. But then they have an ever-growing mass of content between them and the job they're actually interested in playing. There's no reason for it, let the people play the cool jobs you're dangling in front of them.

Actually, all he had to do was get to 50. You only need to complete the story for the 3.0 jobs.