Regarding the Revision of the Prohibited Activities and Account Penalty Policy

[Anger]

So many crazy rude people bullying players I am so glad this is in effect. The bullies will hate it but who cares.

Yes, it will make for a better community.

[Tiraelina]

How about that people do not like, when the service they are paying for has loose terms of service, which allows to reject their service for no reason?
You are saying that gms are competent and so they will not do this.
You dont know, you cant guarantee that the person behind the GM nick wont ban you for the political views or something, lets say on US server where political debate does not exist anymore and people are super hostile because X is not Y. Can you guarantee that, there will be enough staff and enough of their time given to analyse every report sent to them? You are super naive if you think people could objectively judge others all the time and not make mistake or do something because of bad mood, its the nature of everyone of us and you could experience it on all social media where moderators pretending to be the objective ones ending up banning some people for their views or because they dont like them.

Those rules are not only loose but also super strict.
There will be more reports being send by people and more bans being given to players which with old ToS will never be warned or banned, the game will start losing players.

If the sky is falling now, it was falling before too. They could do any of this in the old system if they so desired for the exact same reasons. Except SE isn't in the business of banning their income over trivialities.

Real world politics don't belong in a game either. I wouldn't think twice about reporting it.

[Fyce]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Rule

The Golden Rule is the principle of treating others as one's self would wish to be treated.

In other words, if you wouldn't want something said to you, don't say it to someone else. And yes, I defined it already in a recent post.
[...]

The term "reasonable person" is a legal term used in courts by lawyers. It's not as outlandish as some of you are making it seem: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reasonable_person
[...]

SE's GM actions are determined by the internal policy of that private japanese company.
If their orders are to put a strike on anyone that have been reported by someone else saying they got offended, they will do it. Simply because they very likely don't want to lose their job. Yes, GM also have a morale on their own, but orders from management take priority. (And btw, their morale is almost certainly different than yours.)

We don't need your definitions, or the definitions coming from a foreign wikipedia page.
We need SE's definitions.

If you try to enter a private club with clothes you find acceptable (or that your society/culture finds acceptable), they can still deny you from going in because of their own definition of what's actually an acceptable dress code for their private club.
... Which is why we are simply asking SE to clearly define what is their dress code so they let us in... Or at least don't kick us out, if I was to use my private club analogy again.

So far, SE is just saying "please dress up appropriatly, otherwise we'll punish you", without even saying what "appropriatly" means in their eyes.
We don't know what their tolerence is. And a wikipedia page will not help us find out.
I'll repeat myself, but after 84 pages quite a lot of people still didn't get it: don't bother with what you think are objective definitions -they are actually subjective, btw. The only relevant definitions are SE's ones -which are also subjective and have not been clearly disclosed.

Tl;dr: These definitions are worthless as wikipedia's definitions might very well not be the same as the ones from a private japanese company. We just know that SE wants to be involved in order to make a better community. But we don't even know what's a "better community" for them, and how far they want to go - and that's the most important thing.

[Anger]

SE's GM actions are determined by the internal policy of that private japanese company.
If their orders are to put a strike on anyone that have been reported by someone else saying they got offended, they will do it. Simply because they very likely don't want to lose their job. Yes, GM also have a morale on their own, but orders from management take priority. (And btw, their morale is almost certainly different than yours.)

We don't need your definitions, or the definitions coming from a foreign wikipedia page.
We need SE's definitions.

If you try to enter a private club with clothes you find acceptable (or that your society/culture finds acceptable), they can still deny you from going in because of their own definition of what's actually an acceptable dress code for their private club.
... Which is why we are simply asking SE to clearly define what is their dress code so they let us in... Or at least don't kick us out, if I was to use my private club analogy again.

So far, SE is just saying "please dress up appropriatly, otherwise we'll punish you", without even saying what "appropriatly" means in their eyes.
We don't know what their tolerence is. And a wikipedia page will not help us find out.
I'll repeat myself, but after 84 pages quite a lot of people still didn't get it: don't bother with what you think are objective definitions -they are actually subjective, btw. The only relevant definitions are SE's ones -which are also subjective and have not been clearly disclosed.

Tl;dr: These definitions are worthless as wikipedia's definitions might very well not be the same as the ones from a private japanese company. We just know that SE wants to be involved in order to make a better community. But we don't even know what's a "better community" for them, and how far they want to go - and that's the most important thing.

This couldn't be further from the truth.

[Bran3677]

But what evidence have we that GMs can’t do their job right? I quite often see threads thanking GMs for their fair and balanced support. I’m sure with these changes they have more checks to go through before it goes to bans.

Person who gets their way thanks the person who made it so. More at 11.

Mayhaps if we could see what those checks are, or understand their thinking better, this wouldn't be an issue. There are 84 pages of discussion about this with several posts per hour, even three days later. Even if this GM team is perfect (it isn't. I'm not ragging on them, just saying that no GM team is.) I would still be concerned because to perfectly enforce these rules to the letter and omniciently would be banning a lot of people.

For these new rules to work, GMs have to be incredibly lax in their enforcement of them, or else they ban the entire customerbase. These rules need to be made clear and concise, and they need to throw out dubious terms like "unilaterally" entirely. I'd expect most of the people who are arguing here had to google what that even means -including myself- and I've seen a lot of people already misuse the term or misunderstand it. Or maybe I'm misunderstanding it. Even more reason to get rid of it.

All of this could very well be a whole lot of ruckus about a whole lot of nothing. But these rules seem to be based around ideals and morals. They mirror a certain very hot debate going on that will heavily determine our future, far outside of the bounds of this game. So people are going to talk about it. People are going to be up in arms, and discuss. It is a mirror to an issue that many of us care deeply about. Thusly, I feel it is a disservice to us all to try and defuse these arguments; whether you feel the same way or not.

[Zeonx]

Yes, it will make for a better community.

I wasn't going to post again but you think that the game is going to be better lets look at the facts and this is gonna be a dose of reality.

Those so called mean bully's you mention are the elites who do the hardcore runs and trust me with those new rules opt in good luck flagging up and getting in a raid with them, you'll be excluded due to fear of being banned nobody is going to want to play with each other.

then you'll report for them not letting you in the raid if they end up banned you better be sure others will fall also because from what I experienced in high runs you pretty much get kicked for low dps, messing up to much people dcing because they cant win and someone will take it to the next level and ban which means all high end runs will be knocked off in the long run flagging up for a party will take even long, people will stop partying with others and use only trust.

just because you act good and never been in trouble doesn't mean you wont be effected after this unfolds and saying that I already said my goodbyes to forums I say it again later days.

[Gmasotti]

This couldn't be further from the truth.

Dear customer, we regret to inform you that your account has been temporarily suspended due to a violation of our TOS, more specifically, you just unilaterally rejected someone else's opinion. We would like to explain to you in more detail where the perceived slight was, but as it is indeed "perceived" and we have not appropriately explained it in the TOS either I guess that's that. Please have a nice day and see you in 3 days.

[Anger]

Dear customer, we regret to inform you that your account has been temporarily suspended due to a violation of our TOS, more specifically, you just unilaterally rejected someone else's opinion. We would like to explain to you in more detail where the perceived slight was, but as it is indeed "perceived" and we have not appropriately explained it in the TOS either I guess that's that. Please have a nice day and see you in 3 days.

Are you impersonating SE staff? How am I your customer?

[Negotiator]

By the way, square-Enix,
In light of these new terms, I’ve lost all excitement for shadowbringer. Cancelled my physical collectors edition too. I’ve seen a lot of posts on reddit and YouTube of players that have also lost their enthusiasm. Some were even potential new players. I don’t worship video games and don’t really care about new announcements. I wanted to support you more but now more in a observers position. I’m not alone in this feeling but I hope there is a way to fix this P.R.

[KageTokage]

I'm not going to make any harsh judgments about the ToS changes until people actually report getting punished for insanely petty reasons at a noticeably higher rate then before.