Regarding the Revision of the Prohibited Activities and Account Penalty Policy

[Sigma-Astra]

Welcome back ^.^

The only thing I wanted to bring up is " you're going to have to accept it because you can't control how things are changed nor is anyone in a position to fix it themselves.". I can do something about it. Ending my sub. I am actually considering that after seeing how these changes pan out.

The worst thing that could possibly come of these changes is people leaving because they don't like them. Whether or not it could reach catastrophic levels is unknown, and unlikely. I imagine most people won't even read them. Regardless, I personally don't agree with these rules for the reasons I have stated previously.

Also, I'm completely done with this conversation at this point. It has become abundantly clear that this will not come to a resolution and will only foster further resentment.

This seems to be following the overarching break down of society that I have been witnessing over the past several years.

Fare thee well.

I'd honestly say that I disagree with you going that far in ending your sub towards, what I can only surmise is a hobby that you enjoy, over a few rule changes. I kind of see that as taking steps towards the level of extremity for something I'd consider to be rather trivial. But, you have that right to do so if that's what you really want whether I think it's kind of foolish or not.

It's just an observation of mine, but take it as you will, it just seems like people are reacting way more sensitive towards the new ToS revision than they need to be doing. You seem like a nice person, so, it's a shame that you're going as far as you are.

[Freyt]

This is purposefully obtuse and antagonistic. You know very well the accepted morals of society and what is considered "good behavior". To pretend you don't is dishonest to say the least. Maybe 30 or 40 years ago there was significant enough of a difference of morals between cultures to warrant clarification, but that's no longer the case. We live in a global society where commonly respectful behavior is well known (at least between peoples with common language and communication).

There may be morally questionable yet culturally acceptable actions taken in some cultures, particularly in cultures that haven't evolved their understanding of women's rights, etc, but that has nothing to do with showing respect to other people (which those cultures are still capable of).

The thing is I'm pretty sure my morals are superior to your own. I'm also sure many things you consider to be moral obligations are immoral in my views, and vice versa, and that those views are also superior to your own.

I've learned my morals through society as well as through critical thinking. I've weighed the consequences of what I determine to be moral, and have come to the conclusion that they strongly promote world peace, general prosperity, and happiness for all. I'm also predicting that your own morals likely would contribute to widespread misery and poverty.

Many, like yourself, would not agree with me I'm sure, however I have encountered many who share my values, and many others who wind up there after some time.

My point in all this is that you speak of society as if it's automatically on your side, and I strongly express my doubts.

[Kaedan]

The thing is I'm pretty sure my morals are superior to your own. I'm also sure many things you consider to be moral obligations are immoral in my views, and vice versa, and that those views are also superior to your own.

I've learned my morals through society as well as through critical thinking. I've weighed the consequences of what I determine to be moral, and have come to the conclusion that they strongly promote world peace, general prosperity, and happiness for all. I'm also predicting that your own morals likely would contribute to widespread misery and poverty.

Many, like yourself, would not agree with me I'm sure, however I have encountered many who share my values, and many others who wind up there after some time.

My point in all this is that you speak of society as if it's automatically on your side, and I strongly express my doubts.

I can assure you you're doubts are misplaced, but if you'd like to talk specifics, that would make for good conversation. Otherwise it's just posturing.

[Freyt]

I can assure you you're doubts are misplaced, but if you'd like to talk specifics, that would make for good conversation. Otherwise it's just posturing.

You're missing the point. This isn't a contest. Between the two of us it doesn't matter who's morals are superior (mine are). Laws (rules) don't enforce morals. Society may enforce morals through ridicule and other reactionary behavior, but by no means is that any sort of power to enact change.

You can't force someone to be a good person, especially when the person you're trying to force doesn't believe in your idea of a good person. The best thing to ensure is not that everyone gets respect, but that no one is legitimately harmed or put at risk of harm, physically or monetarily, not emotionally.

[Emmanellain]

You can't force someone to be a good person, especially when the person you're trying to force doesn't believe in your idea of a good person. The best thing to ensure is not that everyone gets respect, but that no one is legitimately harmed or put at risk of harm, physically or monetarily, not emotionally.

You, I like you.
As someone who has been reported twice by other players that have pushed their own morals over my head. I personally think too, that this is the biggest issue with the new ToS. It's not as simple as "don't be a jerk"... if someone gets a chip on their shoulder and are out to get you, its clear with these rules they can do their damnedest to push your buttons and in turn push you under the banhammer. Just because some of the people who frequent this thread have not experienced a report let alone a false one, it serves all well to criticize and ask SE to deliberate to ensure that LESS false claims happen, so people don't lose their possibly years of effort in this game over a kindergarten argument in a duty. I mean, once you get banned in-game you cannot enter the forums, so how are we to hear the stories from the people who got falsely banned? How can we as a community act against it? What if it happened to you? One can rant all you want over Reddit, but good luck to have your story seen by the moderators.
It's an MMO, and like in shooter games tensions can rise the harder the content, it's normal human emotion. I have been on Balmung for a few years, and the amount of reporting I've seen people do on people with dissenting political views terrify me, I rue what some of these ToS will do to the server.

[MorbolvampireQueen6]

Ill be nice kind 2 players.. key word is PLAYERS.. but as far as im concerned you devs and yoshi do not Desever kindness for how bad you insult the ff series with how the design is in this obe

[Kurando]

Ill be nice kind 2 players.. key word is PLAYERS.. but as far as im concerned you devs and yoshi do not Desever kindness for how bad you insult the ff series with how the design is in this obe

Yet you pay subscription to play their game, I mean you shouldn't play something you don't like. I thought the XIII battle system was a hot mess to what is usually seen in previous FF, but I bear no ill will to any of the devs behind it. Good people treat anyone with kindness regardless of whether they like them or not, some food for thought there for you to consider.

[blackcitadel9]

I don't think it's a stretch to feel apprehensive about these rules changes. There are quite a few games these days that also have strangely vague rules or codes of conduct, and whilst most players don't run afoul of them, rules shouldn't be judged by participants unlikeliness to encounter them, they should be judged by if they are fit for purpose, namely giving clear guidelines as to what is prohibited and offering sufficient protection to whomever is affected. Many people here seem to disagree on that point. Some say the rules are clear and obvious or can boil down to a simple "Don't be a jerk", others think some of the terms are far too subjective and require clarification to be useful or to assuage their fears. (What does deep emotional distress even mean? How do you even prove it? How do you disprove it to protect against falsehood?)

I'm in the latter camp myself though not to "The sky is falling!" extremes. I have seen too many places introduce rules which have been designed to allow the goalposts to be moved whenever the authority deems it necessary, these rules look and feel exactly like them even if that's not SE's intent and this is why I believe most people are upset with them.

To be clear I've only made one report ever in this game, and have not to my knowledge ever been reported (If I have, the GMs evidently didn't think much of the report), so no I don't think I will run afoul of these rules changes. It doesn't mean I think these changes are correct though. I thought "Don't be a jerk" was clear enough before this. To me the changes seem unnecessary, and the motive given a deflection. But at the end of the day, some people are exhausted from this apparent encroachment into everything they enjoy, and I don't blame them for ending their sub. Life is stressful enough without ambiguity invading the very places we go to to relax and have fun.

What I can say is, we (the community, ALL of us, whether we agree or not about these rules changes) need to wait and see - Perhaps it is just much ado about nothing (I hope so), or perhaps it is the "end of FFXIV as we know it" (I doubt it), we don't know yet. In lieu of a response or clarification from SE, we must observe. One final concern from this issue in particular is that innocents who do get caught up in what some people here fear, we may never hear their side at all or it'll be dismissed out of hand.

One last thing, this is just a thing that irks the hell out of me. Can we please stop using the term "toxic" to describe people? It's dehumanizing and I hate that it's spread into the lexicon.

[Chevronone]

So what I gather from these updates, ill just be unplugging my keyboard...

[Stereomix]

Nope. You can make suggestions with no problem at all (as long as you're not rude about it). To compel means to "force" someone to do something. Suggesting or convincing someone to play a certain way is perfectly fine. If it's mechanics, you won't have to worry about being punished, because people are expected to follow mechanics. Perhaps a good example would be that you don't like someone's rotation... if you try to force them to change their rotation by threatening to kick them or something, that's probably punishable.

Mostly that policy is in regards to trying to force people to follow rules of your own design.

I know this is a little off topic but I searched compel in a thesaurus and it came up with dragoon...here is proof.

https://www.thesaurus.com/browse/compel

Ps this made my day.