Regarding the Revision of the Prohibited Activities and Account Penalty Policy

[RognarB]

One might even say that such purging represents an "Expression that unilaterally rejects another person's opinion".

I'm going to find out whatever customer service outlet there is for SE and mail them a complaint about these new policies and the behavior of their staff and I invite whoever is feeling the same way I do to act the same.
Forum complaining does not amount to anything, customer action does.

[CaptainLagbeard]

Must be N.GA cause it's anything but that south of Atl. Also Cassie makes a valid point. People will percieve things in different context. Some of the rules are too broad and need to be more direct. All this does currently is lead to a sweeping generalization and we cannot simply assume SE has our best interests at heart.

Some of them are definitely too vague...

The main ones I'd say

・Disclosing or indicating personal information such as contact details with the aim of meeting up in the real world

You're not allowed to discuss meeting with other players?

・Expressions that significantly lack consideration for another person

Non-personal statements?

・Other expressions that are offensive to another person

You can claim literally anything as offensive.

・Intentional leaving or disconnection

I want someone to try to definitively prove a lack of intent on an internet outage

[Nedkel]

Wonder, if me patting a smaller miquote on my femroe could be accounted as a bannable offense if they decide to report it.

hmmmm

These are prohibited in all places where expressions can be made, including chat (including Quick Chat and Emote), markers,

[InkstainedGwyn]

I absolutely agree that a lot of this is (possibly too) vague, even if I think I can understand the intent - and I know intent does not always equal reality. I don't know how SE is going to handle this and I'm wary of misuse, too.

I'm just going to say, though, that most of the "well I can't ever talk to anybody ever again because I'm just going to get banned" folks sound like the kind of folks I wouldn't want to talk to anyway - if you automatically assume that people are going to find you offensive, then you're probably right. So, honestly? No tears lost there, for me.

[Gemina]

I'm not giving advice, I'm pointing out a fact - you don't know how to play your job. I'm not out to coach either. If DF isn't for my convenience, it isn't for theirs either. Why do I have to sit in a dungeon for 40 minutes or bite a 30min penalty because someone is too lazy to read tooltips? And forming a PF is far from being immune from those type of players joining. And I constantly fail to see why do these players have the right to be entitled so much that no one can even point out objective facts about their gameplay. Would you be offended if your hair was covered in mud and I told you 'go wash your hair, it's dirty' because it's an unwanted opinion?

Ok, what makes you feel like you're entitled to point out "facts" to other players? However you want to look at it, it is still unsolicited. It's like you said, the game provides tooltips, and it is NOT your obligation to reiterate those tips to other players. It is the player's responsibility to read, understand, and inquire about those tooltips if they are unclear. You don't have to sit in a dungeon for 40 minutes. Leave. You don't have to incur the 30 minute penalty either. Stay. By me saying DF is not for your convenience, I am talking about you as an individual. It is a convenience to everyone to be able to use DF to obtain clears, and it is a privilege that is abused by players with poor etiquette.

Why don't you tell those players to go through 'appropriate program's to actually learn to play before joining the DF parties?

Leveling from 1-70 is the program. But no one takes into account how quickly we can get to max level, and that we can do it without entering a single grouped instance. But eventually, MSQ gating will prevent their progression and they have to queue into PvE content much to their chagrin. Experience points and job levels in the game is not indicative of a player's skill by any means.

I advise for all players to be courteous to each other, and knowing and understanding how to play your job prior to queuing for an instance is definitely a big way to show courtesy to your fellow players. Trust me, I am not exempting the kind of players who want to get carried. But there isn't anything you can do about them. Your course of action can only pertain to you, and it is what I advise if you wish to stay off of the radar.

I don't even need a third party tool to tell me people are bad because Suzaku dies to enrage at 20% health in a farm party. I see what people are doing and what skills they're using anyway. And telling them they should get better is only offensive to people who consider this game to be their personal safe space and who think they have the right to waste other people's time due to their own laziness. And it would be a dangerous precedent to consider 'all opinion that is unwanted' as offensive and punishable, that's just a sick environment. If you want to learn, join learning parties, don't join farm and clear parties when you don't have the skill or knowledge of mechanics to clear it. And anyone telling me that when I have no right to call out those people is just tragicomically ridiculous.

You've just explained why we don't even need parsers. If the group wipes to enrage or other DPS check, the groups overall DPS is short, and that is ALL we need to know. Sure you are within your right to tell players to get better, and they are within their right to tell you to bugger off. The moment you start spouting off numbers to spotlight the lowest DPS in the group though, you are in violation and if reported, you can face disciplinary action.

Premades are meant to reduce these occurrences, not eliminate them, and you can set the standards for your group. In these cases a GM is going to be more sympathetic to your complaints because another player joined your PF which has guidelines set by you and they did not follow through. A perfect example of this is players who do set up farm parties with an add-on that says, "plan on staying for multiple runs", and if they bail the moment they win the loot, they will be in violation and you can report them. That is what this system is meant to do, not get players banned because, "you don't pay my sub."

I'm sure you'll argue that lazy players can make premades as well, and this for all intent and purposes is entirely true. However, their lazy though remember? That doesn't make it ok, but it does mean that they are willing to deal with the randomness of DF, and usually only become hostile when the run becomes even more disruptive by a stranger critiquing their gameplay.

[CatsWithShoes]

I absolutely agree that a lot of this is (possibly too) vague, even if I think I can understand the intent - and I know intent does not always equal reality. I don't know how SE is going to handle this and I'm wary of misuse, too.

I'm just going to say, though, that most of the "well I can't ever talk to anybody ever again because I'm just going to get banned" folks sound like the kind of folks I wouldn't want to talk to anyway - if you automatically assume that people are going to find you offensive, then you're probably right. So, honestly? No tears lost there, for me.

Some of us have had experiences with the " constantly offended " types on social media, who use their proposed victimhood as a cudgel to punish people they disagree with.
There are those people out there for which finding offense with something is their goal. You do not have to articulate a response in debate anymore, merely find a reason to be offended and win.

[Melichoir]

At the end of the day, these rules are worrisome to me.

Pretty much, theyre overly broad and ambiguous and allow for a greater realm of control the GMs can step into. In a positive light, that means correcting actual instances of problems in the game (Anecdotal point: Did a raid in Orbonne where one of hte 8 man groups purposefully kept wiping to ThunderGod in add phase to push the encounter past the weekly reset. They ended up screwing 16 other players just for their own gain. And it was obvious they were wiping purposefully (standing in AoEs and making no effort to move, not attacking their mob, refusing to communicate or ask questions of the other groups, not responding to any feedback when players were offering tips and help, moving mob away from other players when they tried to assist.) That kind of activity needs to obviously be addressed.

However, the darkside is that discretion is left up to GMs on how somethign is held, and considering Ive seen these kind of overly broad policies be implemented on other platforms and games, I do believe that we'll start seeing people getting banned over things the GMs disagree with on a personal level (ideological differences rather than anything within the realm of a game). We'll have to see. Im hoping for the best here, that these new rules will be used to take care of things that are actual issues, but Im not going to hold my breath about that.

[zztoluca]

As per new implementation of prohibited activities this post is offensive and limits my ability as a customer and player to enjoy the game.

Please revert the changes and go back to the drawing board. Western politics and censorship have no place in this game.

It wasn't perfect before but it did not need such heavy handed revision to those policies.

[Yshnal]

We all know what comprises "nuisance and obstructive play" and is what triggered this update.
Killing BLU spell farming mobs.

There's really no need to delve any deeper into that part.
You're not gonna get banned for 'early pulling' because thats too subjective.

Anything that's too subjective will be no more bannable than it was before, the new rules are simply vague in order give the GM the wiggle room they need when one party is clearly in the wrong but there's nothing in the ToS to support banning them.

No one has anything to worry about unless they're a career asshat.

And that's just the latest case of players doing similar stuff that's obviously disrupting everyone else's game, and there being no proper rules in place to call them out on it.

As I said earlier, after all this time -and how things haven't improved no matter what the devs have tried, because some people always find a way to bend the ToS/mechanics- we deserve these rules, and they need to be this "vague" in order to prevent people from circumventing them due to A or B. Yes, these annoying people might be a minority, but the GMs need to have these rules in the ToS in order to be able to punish them with some legal ground covering their backs. If, as a lot of you say, you are not doing something wrong, if you aren't being a dick to your fellow players, you have nothing to fear here.

No company in their right mind would waste more money to moderate a game just to start being trigger happy and ban paying customers that did nothing, or over the most stupid reasons, thus losing even more money. SE is all about getting more money, and you should know that by now (cash shop, etc., you know the story). This is not a government with a hidden agenda or whatever trying to kill freedom of speech and control people, as some seem to imply with their comments (lol). This is a privately owned company, so try to think a bit before letting conspiracies cloud your minds. If they're investing money on this it's because their internal data is showing them that there's an issue with how part of the community is behaving that is making them lose -or not win as much- money as they want.

I really don't know why some people have gotten this alarmed over this before thinking about it logically from SE's point of view. Can we please wait and see why they're adding these new rules to their "home", before coming to some internet forums screaming "freedom!"?

[Zephera]

I find it a bit hard to take seriously the idea some people are floating that SE is chomping at the bit to ban paying customers for innocuous reasons. They don't permaban people who cheat or buy gil so there's absolutely no way they're going to ban anyone for minor stuff, you have to work incredibly hard to get permabanned in this game.