Regarding the Revision of the Prohibited Activities and Account Penalty Policy

[Freyt]

A while back ago in an instance of Shisui I was healing. I was DPS'ing as a healer. I was keeping everyone alive. In the middle of the first boss, another player started going off about how I should stick to healing. They hadn't died by this point, or anyone else, I simply hadn't brought them to 100% HP. They were clearly under emotional distress, despite me performing my absolute best for the party and not having said ANYTHING by then other than possibly "hello" at the beginning of the instance.

So how is that resolved under these rules?

[Gemina]

A while back ago in an instance of Shisui I was healing. I was DPS'ing as a healer. I was keeping everyone alive. In the middle of the first boss, another player started going off about how I should stick to healing. They hadn't died by this point, or anyone else, I simply hadn't brought them to 100% HP. They were clearly under emotional distress, despite me performing my absolute best for the party and not having said ANYTHING by then other than possibly "hello" at the beginning of the instance.

So how is that resolved under these rules?

It isn't, because yours is one of two sides to the story. For all we know, you could be FoS and tunnel visioned the entire time in there. But going by just what you said, no corrective action would be taken against you because you didn't do anything wrong. However, you could report this person because they ARE harassing you. It's the very definition of it. He/she is also obstructing gameplay by trying to get a chat response out of you during a boss fight. These changes are not in place to punish good players who are respectful and courteous. If you are one of these players, then be at ease.

[Freyt]

It isn't, because yours is one of two sides to the story. For all we know, you could be FoS and tunnel visioned the entire time in there. But going by just what you said, no corrective action would be taken against you because you didn't do anything wrong. However, you could report this person because they ARE harassing you. It's the very definition of it. He/she is also obstructing gameplay by trying to get a chat response out of you during a boss fight. These changes are not in place to punish good players who are respectful and courteous. If you are one of these players, then be at ease.

But I emotionally distressed them, regardless if I intended to or not. If this scenario were to happen today, I would be susceptible to a penalization. Additionally they would also be susceptible to the penalization. However I was not under emotional distress when this occurred, so shouldn't we find an equitable solution and ban me instead? Only then would our emotional damage be equivalent, mine from being banned, and theirs for getting triggered by my healer performance.

[Gemina]

But I emotionally distressed them, regardless if I intended to or not. If this scenario were to happen today, I would be susceptible to a penalization. Additionally they would also be susceptible to the penalization. However I was not under emotional distress when this occurred, so shouldn't we find an equitable solution and ban me instead? Only then would our emotional damage be equivalent, mine from being banned, and theirs for getting triggered by my healer performance.

No, you wouldn't be susceptible because you DID NOT DO ANYTHING WRONG. Dude, listen. This isn't the media, and the GMs aren't SJWs out to protect every safe spacing idiot who plays this game. I know terms like 'emotional distress' brings about these kind of concerns, but the ambiguity is to keep everyone aware. When you draw a clearly distinguishable line, then people know how far they can go before they cross it.

It is easy tell everyone's over reactions because no one is even talking about the multiple warnings that are issued, and suggested corrective actions before you even face a 3 day suspension. It's just, "Player didn't like my playstyle, so now I'm going to get banned?" Can't you see how over the top that is? Seriously take a deep breath and just chill.

[Nyvara]

No, you wouldn't be susceptible because you DID NOT DO ANYTHING WRONG. Dude, listen. This isn't the media, and the GMs aren't SJWs out to protect every safe spacing idiot who plays this game. I know terms like 'emotional distress' brings about these kind of concerns, but the ambiguity is to keep everyone aware. When you draw a clearly distinguishable line, then people know how far they can go before they cross it.

It is easy tell everyone's over reactions because no one is even talking about the multiple warnings that are issued, and suggested corrective actions before you even face a 3 day suspension. It's just, "Player didn't like my playstyle, so now I'm going to get banned?" Can't you see how over the top that is? Seriously take a deep breath and just chill.

You're my hero!

This whole thread is starting to inflict "emotional distress" on me!

[WaterShield]

No, you wouldn't be susceptible because you DID NOT DO ANYTHING WRONG. Dude, listen. This isn't the media, and the GMs aren't SJWs out to protect every safe spacing idiot who plays this game. I know terms like 'emotional distress' brings about these kind of concerns, but the ambiguity is to keep everyone aware. When you draw a clearly distinguishable line, then people know how far they can go before they cross it.

It is easy tell everyone's over reactions because no one is even talking about the multiple warnings that are issued, and suggested corrective actions before you even face a 3 day suspension. It's just, "Player didn't like my playstyle, so now I'm going to get banned?" Can't you see how over the top that is? Seriously take a deep breath and just chill.

With those warnings staying on your account forever regardless of whether they were fair or not, with no oversight or appeals process.

[Freyt]

No, you wouldn't be susceptible because you DID NOT DO ANYTHING WRONG. Dude, listen. This isn't the media, and the GMs aren't SJWs out to protect every safe spacing idiot who plays this game. I know terms like 'emotional distress' brings about these kind of concerns, but the ambiguity is to keep everyone aware. When you draw a clearly distinguishable line, then people know how far they can go before they cross it.

It is easy tell everyone's over reactions because no one is even talking about the multiple warnings that are issued, and suggested corrective actions before you even face a 3 day suspension. It's just, "Player didn't like my playstyle, so now I'm going to get banned?" Can't you see how over the top that is? Seriously take a deep breath and just chill.

I mean that's just your opinion, right? Do you have any further information that I haven't been made aware of? A nice distinguished line would really help to make your case here. I could see what kinds of behavior I'm not supposed to venture into, but it's so hard to tell right now.

Of course I mentioned penalties rather than bans. Those penalties will eventually add up to bans, however. Am I emotionally distressing you at the moment? I'm sorry if I am.

[Gemina]

I mean that's just your opinion, right? Do you have any further information that I haven't been made aware of? A nice distinguished line would really help to make your case here. I could see what kinds of behavior I'm not supposed to venture into, but it's so hard to tell right now.

Why is it so difficult? Perhaps your etiquette is already questionable and that's why it's so ambiguous to you. None of these ToS changes concern me personally, or leave me wandering around aimlessly in some grey area. Do you want to know why? It's because I'm not a douche. When I log into the game I respect everyone until they give me a reason not to. And in that unfortunate case, which is VERY few in number, I simply choose to no longer associate myself with this player.

Of course I mentioned penalties rather than bans. Those penalties will eventually add up to bans, however. Am I emotionally distressing you at the moment? I'm sorry if I am.

Nope. Not at all. But I'll certainly point out how condescending this comment is, which is suggestive to the type of player you are in the game. Perhaps you do have to be worried after all.

I'm not some thin-skinned snowflake who uses whatever leverage I can find to get other players in trouble. I've been harassed, and stalked in this game. I've been called a slut because I refused another player's invitation to go out on a date, among other acts that would easily warrant corrective action. I didn't report any of them even though I probably should have. Not trying to sound like a Mary Sue here; I am far from one, but b-listing, setting status to busy, and/or just avoiding /tells or other means to communicate has always worked for me. It's unfortunate that these methods have not worked for others, and the devs felt like they had to intervene in our day to day activities.

I'll tell you one thing that is ambiguous to me right now though. All of these complaints throughout this thread; I am not sure if they are concerned about players living in safe spaces, or if they are indeed coming from the players living in those safe spaces.

[Freyt]

Perhaps you do have to be worried after all.

I knew it.

[Tempest222]

It isn't, because yours is one of two sides to the story. For all we know, you could be FoS and tunnel visioned the entire time in there. But going by just what you said, no corrective action would be taken against you because you didn't do anything wrong. However, you could report this person because they ARE harassing you. It's the very definition of it. He/she is also obstructing gameplay by trying to get a chat response out of you during a boss fight. These changes are not in place to punish good players who are respectful and courteous. If you are one of these players, then be at ease.

The point is, how any player or GM would view and choose to handle a certain situation is irrelevant, these new guidlines have no boundaries and make it so any GM can handle any situation in any way they feel like, and there is no recourse for the player, as all decisions are final and permanent. Just because you think it would be unreasonable to dole out a punishment in that scenario doesn’t mean every GM would agree, and if they did decide to issue an account penalty they’d be completely backed up by the new “rules” as they are so vague they can be stretched to encompass just about anything.

The guidelines are too vague and are open to literally any interpretation under the sun, amd we are left completely at the whims of GMs who’s personal opinions and biases we cannot possibly guess, amd left in a position of not knowing what types of behaviors will be punished and it what ways since every GM will have a different opinion and will essentially have no concrete rules to shape their decision process.

I mean, case in point right here. If I was a GM my default stance would be to only issue account penalties in pretty severe situations as even something as minor as a warning is fairly serious as any ,ark against an account is permanent and cumulative and over time a handful of cautions could escalate to suspensions or even bannings for minor things that could be solved by the blacklist. In th referenced scenario, assuming both players put in a report, I’d throw out both tickets as my threshold for what constitutes harassment is higher than so,one complaining about lack of heals. Obviously lots of other people would feel punishment was deserved much sooner than I would, and that’s the problem. I’m not saying that my assessment of any situation is more right than someone else’s, just that given essentially no concrete guidelines, there will be very inconsistent punishments doled out for the same sorts of behaviors just based on differences in the opinions of whoever is going over the tickets. There shouldn’t be so much wiggle room.