Regarding the Revision of the Prohibited Activities and Account Penalty Policy

[MistakeNot]

I have been thinking about moving to JP servers for some time now, and as it appears that these new very vague and unprofessional sounding rules only apply to NA and EU, maybe this is the swift kick in the behind i need to make the move and go to the JP servers. Take care EU and NA, ill miss being able to understand what people are saying, but i won't miss the chance at losing 5 years of sub money, time, and hard work i put into my account simply because the system is now able to be abused to basically get anyone banned for virtually no legitimate and fair reasons.

I am pretty sure the rule changes apply equally to the JP servers.

[Legion88]

I have been thinking about moving to JP servers for some time now, and as it appears that these new very vague and unprofessional sounding rules only apply to NA and EU, maybe this is the swift kick in the behind i need to make the move and go to the JP servers. Take care EU and NA, ill miss being able to understand what people are saying, but i won't miss the chance at losing 5 years of sub money, time, and hard work i put into my account simply because the system is now able to be abused to basically get anyone banned for virtually no legitimate and fair reasons.

Are you sure you wont be handled after your registered country in your FFXIV and SE profil?

[Nedkel]

I really don't know why some people have gotten this alarmed over this before thinking about it logically from SE's point of view. Can we please wait and see why they're adding these new rules to their "home", before coming to some internet forums screaming "freedom!"?

You are talking about company, who made the game called "the quiet man" xDD
The worst game of 2018.

I would not say SE is in their right mind today.

[Riardon]

As of some of you may already know, we recently announced a revision to our service policies on the Lodestone. We recommend that everyone read the changes, as they are extremely important.

Those rules are a joke.
They are intentionally vague and this will lead only to frustration and abuse from some of your hot headed GMs.
Don't turn this game into a fascist dystonia.
Some of the greater evil started in the name of good.
Those rules will not protect the community but divide it further.
Immediately rethink what you are doing here and clarify the rules.
You can't be serious to allow a rule that doesn't allow me to speak or disagree with someone.

[PharisHanasaki]

I'm so happy for this. Everyone is overreacting. Really.
Golden rule. That's it.

Some players were starting to abuse the older rules, stating that kicking people for watching cutscenes was 'within my rights as a paying customer' because I can't wait for anyone/don't have time to. And what about them? Was it not their right to watch them too? A lot of players fake DCs just to get a free ticket out of a duty. Some queue up with friends to kick players that don't 'suit their playstyle'. That's what the penalty is for. It's only 30 minutes, you can do other things while you wait.

I have also been stalked, literally, in game, and later irl. And the only thing suggested I could do was blacklist them. He would still follow me everywhere just to stand in front of me to spam emotes, every single day.

It's silly that they had to take the time to write these rules down, since to me it's pretty obvious. But I'm sure this is for the better, not worse.

[NorthernLadMSP]

Some of us have had experiences with the " constantly offended " types on social media, who use their proposed victimhood as a cudgel to punish people they disagree with.
There are those people out there for which finding offense with something is their goal. You do not have to articulate a response in debate anymore, merely find a reason to be offended and win.

Exactly. There's even people on this very forum like this, and I guarantee those same people will take their offended victimhood and these new rules and have a field day with it in-game.

[Raiya]

OK looking at this I'm going to counter some of these points SE has put up some are well meaning but let's be honest other's are intentional troll feeding or allow some GM's to be overzealous here..

・Discriminatory expressions based on race/nationality/thinking/gender/sexual orientation/gender identity

Strait Foward and fine.

・Discriminatory expressions about a state/religion/occupation/organisation, etc.

Strait Foward and fine.

・Obscene/indecent expressions

Should only be if someone is being ridiculous and not quitting after several warnings. Should not be used ever for single use utterances or low or occasional only excessive spamming. Also lets face it we all know of the existence of ERP it's existence has been around in MMO's since time immemorial (Hai Goldshire!) so let's be honest if its in private so what don't bother them it's only if they broadcast this sillyness that it should be an issue.

・Actions that inflict emotional distress using content related to historical events or crimes

Hit and miss here. Should not be used for silly stuff only excessive stuff (I'm going to take a stab and say some of the BDO community have been sneaking in and trust me their level of toxicity is REALLY excessive not the minor stuff).

・Stalking

Strait Foward and fine.

・Disclosing or indicating personal information such as contact details with the aim of meeting up in the real world.

Fairly OK but situational. If it's consentual thats fine like normal meeting up stuff. Should only be really useful to use this if it involves trying to attack or harrass someone IRL of course but otherwise fine.

・Disclosing or indicating another person's real world personal information without permission.

Strait Foward and fine.

・Other actions that are generally regarded as actions that inflict deep emotional distress on another person.

This is a bit too vague and needs clarification and to be a bit more direct. Should not be used for "oh you hurt my feelings" type of people only if this is intentional harrassment or generally repeated targeting of a person.

・Aggressive expressions such as violent language/slander/insult/threat.

Should only be an issue if person is going off the deep end or going on a F U barrage all over the place. Do not use this for single use unless of course it's "I'll kill you" type things that's a different story etc.

・Expressions that provoke or belittle another person, such as excessive criticism, negation/ridicule

Seriously this is usually blacklist territory here which is enough. If it involves logging alts to harrass someone that's fair game but let's be serious here people are a living contradiction some are incredibly intelligent and rational and other's are brain-dead idiots. It's well open to being abused. This shouldn't be in here it's too vague and is a definite report troll issue.

・Expressions that significantly lack consideration for another person

Again this should not be in here it's too vague and can easily be twisted by report troll's here. It also fails to be specific to any situation or example.

・Expressions that unilaterally reject another person's opinion

Again way too vague. People don't have to listen to one another (Literally we can shut em up permanantly with the blacklist).

・Expressions that any reasonable person would find offensive

Somewhat vague and opaque but it's situational.

・Expressions that compel a playing style.

This is literally asking for trouble. Community has defined play styles purely for efficiency and ease of play. There's also the whole gear angle. Healer may want to DPS but is so under-geared that they let the tank die. People tell that healer to focus on healing but happens to be a "princess healer" (We ALL know that type). Report's people simply who want to clear the dungeon without stress (remember people play to have fun not bang their head off the wall and get pissed because someone refuses to listen and turns the dungeon run into a nightmare run. Literal Troll Fuel here.

・Expressions that attempt to unilaterally exclude someone from the game or content/community, etc.
(Except when in accordance with rules set by an administrator such as a Free Company Master)

My guess is this is aimed at those robbing spoils from a run for themselves or the BLU spell issue?

・Expressions that contravene public order and morals.

Very Vague here as what could contravene "morals" in one place is perfectly fine in others.

・Other expressions that are offensive to another person.

Again literally Troll Fuel here. Only time this is right is if it's sustained harassment or just being a plain dumbass here. There's a few people who have serious issue's over single line insult's and simply cannot ignore and block and move on they get high and mighty or vindictive and malicious. Asking for trouble.


・Spamming
This means using chat (including Quick Chat and Emote) to obstruct another person's conversation, or obstruct the use of mog letters, etc., for example, by sending an excessive number of unnecessary items in mog letters, etc. Even if obstruction was not the objective of the behaviour, it may be deemed a violation if another player is actually obstructed by the behaviour.

Pretty straitfoward here.

・Obstructing transit/progress
This means obstructive behaviour such as group blocking of passages or facilities along which many players pass or obstructing another person's game play progress, for example by overlapping an important NPC deliberately for a long time.

This is a bit vague. It's easy for plenty of people to do this when new content releases and it's actually very hard or impossible to do in normal gameplay since NPC targetting exists.

・Improper expulsion voting
This means excluding another person by manipulation of expulsion voting.

Fairly straightforward as well if implies to kicking people at the last boss to be spiteful and such. Same if someone kicks another without warning or even fails to communicate in chat that anything is wrong.

・Intentional leaving or disconnection
This means obstructing another person's game play by intentionally leaving the game or disconnecting from the server.

Let's be blunt here. This shouldn't be here. We know the reason for this: Evading The dungeon penalty because the roulette matches a bad group/ selects a dungeon people hate or picks ANY of the last 3 stormblood levelling dungeons or levelling trials. Aurum Vale is an infamous example of people just wanting out because 7/10 it become's a ragefest. Some people also can be d/c'd without warning as well or have connection issue and this can easily be abused for trolling or those being overzealous. Rather there should be a slight redesign of the vote dismiss to have afk/harrasment/cheating seperate and simply just allow people to boot offline player's without any delay. It's FAR quicker and less of an issue to just replace an offline/disconnect instead. Your not solving people running this just pushing people to leave the dungeon roulette entirely (also thank god for Eureka).

・Other obstruction of play
This means all other behaviour that deliberately obstructs another person's game play by some means.

Completely vague. Should only apply though if it's intentional not accidental.

◆Monster Player Kill (MPK)
"MPK" means the act of sending a monster towards another person so that they are knocked out, or obstructing another person's game play.

Honestly this is a hit and miss one and dont know how this got included. I actually get the feeling this was lifted directly from FFXI it's almost impossible to do this in FFXIV and even when it can be done it's nearly always accidental and of no consequence beyond a 10 second teleport trip.


◆Fraud
"Fraud" Fraud is an act of deception intended to deprive a player of his or her full enjoyment of the game or a player’s property. Fraud occurs most often in agreements between players for trade, loot, or betting:

- Trade fraud: Fraud relating to the exchange of items or in-game services.
- Loot fraud: Fraud relating to loot distribution.
- Bet fraud: Fraud relating to the gambling of gil or other possessions on the outcomes of in-game events (Please note that gambling on the outcomes of events outside of the game, or the gambling of anything other than in-game gil or possessions, is strictly prohibited).

All straightforward.

◆Impersonation
"Impersonation" means impersonating or fraudulently claiming to be other players, SQUARE ENIX employees, or any third parties. This could involve using a name that resembles the character name, Free Company name, etc. or is used by another person, or using a name that is the same as or similar to the name of a Square Enix staff member.

Also straightforward.

The last few on the list seem pretty much standard MMO point's and arent out of line with anthing else so no point in quoting the rest of them here.

[Derio]

So my best bet is to treat it like pvp where all of the commands are existing text to just say the "hello" and "thank you". Surely those cannot get you banned

[Mizunoko]

I really don't know why some people have gotten this alarmed over this before thinking about it logically from SE's point of view. Can we please wait and see why they're adding these new rules to their "home", before coming to some internet forums screaming "freedom!"?

Do you have something against freedom and/or the people who might want to scream freedom!?

[Gemina]

It is not a "company" enforcing the rules.

The enforcement is done by entry level employees in the community management team who may not even have a college degree nor play the game, and whose job performance is based on how fast they can solve ticket with very little oversight. I've worked in the games industry before, these people don't even login to the game to deal with these tickets. It's just another branch of tech support.

If they get a ticket for something and it's against anything in the rules, they issue a ban. They don't spend hours investigating each case. They spend a few minutes, which is just looking at if the behavior is bannable in the rules.

The same can be said for any HR department in the RL workforce. These employees typically never see or are involved with the bones and sinew of operations, sales, or are personally involved with employee/employee or employee/employer disputes. IOW, they don't need to play the game to enforce the rules and guidelines set by the company, which are strongly in place to protect not only themselves, but also their subscribers.

Don't think bans are going to be issued like they're giving away candy. It is in SEs best interest to keep their players subscribed. This includes players who would potentially unsub due to harassment, bullying, or other acts of misconduct towards them. This is only going to affect problematic player types. They are the ones that should be worried. That said, it is tough to weed out a lawn without clipping a few blades of grass. The world is not fair and good players with good intent might occasionally be questioned due to a pathetic player who should be banned getting a rise out of them. That's the whole, "It's not the instigator, but the retaliator that gets in trouble" I was speaking about several pages back. Again though, know and learn when to just walk away.