Shadowbringers RDM Wishlist

[Archwizard]

In other news:

The more I think about it, the more likely I find it we're going to end up getting a DoT in a future Xpac.

The devs can't add "Jolt III", because in order to make our Verspells more appealing they have to be stronger than Jolt II, which is only 20 potency behind VF/VS and 50 behind VT/VA. In order to raise the potency of Jolt any higher, every Verspell needs to be increased too.
To add more potency to the base rotation, either they need to add more procs, more finishers at the end of our combo, buff our cooldowns, or straight up give us something to swap Jolt with; they just blew their load with Scorch and cooldown buffing, and they removed Impactful, so returning a variant of it at this point would just be disappointing.
But a DoT -- say, a 2-sec cast with an innate AoE spread -- could easily inflict more total potency than almost any spell in our rotation (and should, so we have reason to maintain it) and be continuously tuned free of the other Verspells (since at the end of the day we won't ever be spamming it), and so long as its mana gain per-cast exceeds Jolt, it can easily slide in to replace it.

And to this day I will never understand someone complaining such wouldn't "fit" in the rotation. Not wanting to maintain a DoT, fine, maybe, but if the duration is long enough it's hardly different from the rest of our proc gameplay.

[Mansion]

The devs can't add "Jolt III", because in order to make our Verspells more appealing they have to be stronger than Jolt II, which is only 20 potency behind VF/VS and 50 behind VT/VA. In order to raise the potency of Jolt any higher, every Verspell needs to be increased too.

If they are to keep the "easy appealing job" route, it's likely that if the potencies are too low compared to other casters, they would just create a Trait that increases potencies of all spells and that's it.

[Archwizard]

If they are to keep the "easy appealing job" route, it's likely that if the potencies are too low compared to other casters, they would just create a Trait that increases potencies of all spells and that's it.

And while I must begrudgingly admit that Enhanced Displacement and Weaponskill Mastery point to that being true, I am under no obligation to enjoy that fact.

But what exactly is complicated about "2 sec cast: Gain 3/3 Mana and deal damage over time for 30 sec"? Or even "Gain 1/1 Mana per tick"?

If anything I would think it would be a great way to introduce DoTs to people who made it to level 50 to unlock RDM without somehow ever casting a DoT effect.

[Shurrikhan]

And while I must begrudgingly admit that Enhanced Displacement and Weaponskill Mastery point to that being true, I am under no obligation to enjoy that fact.

But what exactly is complicated about "2 sec cast: Gain 3/3 Mana and deal damage over time for 30 sec"? Or even "Gain 1/1 Mana per tick"?

If anything I would think it would be a great way to introduce DoTs to people who made it to level 50 to unlock RDM without somehow ever casting a DoT effect.

I see nothing complicated to it. I just don't see anything appealing to it, either, unless it can be in some way... "abused".

For instance, what if rather than Scatter upgrading to Impact, Scatter instead... Scatter'ed your last spell? You see a ton of enemies, hard-cast your long-cast DoT and voila! Enchanted Moulinet for days! Granted, I'd want it to be internally balanced enough that that's not always the best decision, but it ought to at least be something that gets you a little giddy with "I can literally Moulinet through my entire Embolden window!" or "All these little mobs... if we could just bind them away from the focus target as my DoTs tick away, I can triple melee-combo off them... *Evil laughter.*"

Otherwise it's just Heavy Thrust all over again.

[Mansion]

And while I must begrudgingly admit that Enhanced Displacement and Weaponskill Mastery point to that being true, I am under no obligation to enjoy that fact.

But what exactly is complicated about "2 sec cast: Gain 3/3 Mana and deal damage over time for 30 sec"? Or even "Gain 1/1 Mana per tick"?

If anything I would think it would be a great way to introduce DoTs to people who made it to level 50 to unlock RDM without somehow ever casting a DoT effect.

Nothing complicated in itself, I agree. Now I'm quite enjoying a DPS job that has actually no DoT "for the sake of having one" (or a timer to maintain, whih rules out MCH). Looks like DNC will be that way, more Proc-based and thus won't need a DoT.
Seeing the 5.0 changes on RDM, I'm actually closer to simply "give it up" because though I wish for something more challenging in RDM's design, I don't see it coming and in the end, that's ok.
But I would have loved something like SAM : a basic rotation, but a huge DPS output potential when you really focus on optimizing DPS.

[Archwizard]

Nothing complicated in itself, I agree. Now I'm quite enjoying a DPS job that has actually no DoT "for the sake of having one" (or a timer to maintain, whih rules out MCH). Looks like DNC will be that way, more Proc-based and thus won't need a DoT.

I am curious about the thought process behind calling it a DoT "for the sake of having one". As I explained it seems a likely course of action should they seek to add more potency to the rotation in the future as an alternative to "Jolt III", aside from just buffing every spell with one Trait, especially with how DoTs can function as easy damage-tuning knobs.

Not to mention that between BLMs scoffing at maintaining their DoT amongst all of their other timers and SMN tying more and more of their DPS to maximizing theirs, RDM could be a happy medium, and nothing says a RDM DoT couldn't come with its own mechanics/benefits for maintaining it beyond Mana and damage. My bare-bones descriptions there were simply to illustrate the incredible ease of sliding one into the rotation, given that I've seen complaints before about how one 'wouldn't fit' or 'would be out of place' or whatnot -- and may also shine a light on minimum requirements of such DoTs to be useful without outshining other skills, of course.

At the very least a new spell addition to the base rotation wouldn't be unwelcome given the showing we've been given for Shadowbringers. Wow, one whole extra finisher soaked in Impactful's blood, gee thanks.

[Shurrikhan]

I am curious about the thought process behind calling it a DoT "for the sake of having one".

Any DoT which cannot both unique give and be given gameplay opportunities via their surrounding kit can pretty well be called a "DoT for the sake of having a DoT".

How easy it is to "slide in" to the kit means nothing if it doesn't also provide anything more than... a DoT.

Fair, and I too would much prefer any DoTs for DPS have associated mechanics -- especially since SMN already corners the market on maintaining DoT effects for their own sakes.

And I swear we came to this exact same conclusion 10 or so pages back...

Ha, probably so. My post links keep getting jostled around, it seems, by random mod deletions of posts I'd quoted in turn removing my posts as well, so it's getting hard to check my history when the links break down. And since the New Posts button is the only way I get back to any thread and my memory in this regard is rather poor, that was pretty necessary.
Edit: Only finding the discussion on status effects and diminishing returns within the last month or so. I remember that from much earlier on, too, though... iirc.

[Archwizard]

Any DoT which cannot both unique give and be given gameplay opportunities via their surrounding kit can pretty well be called a "DoT for the sake of having a DoT".

How easy it is to "slide in" to the kit means nothing if it doesn't also provide anything more than... a DoT.

Fair, and I too would much prefer any DoTs for DPS have associated mechanics -- especially since SMN already corners the market on maintaining DoT effects for their own sakes.

And I swear we came to this exact same conclusion 10 or so pages back...