Shadowbringers RDM Wishlist

[Archwizard]

I'm not so interested in AOE options because we just use it for dungeons... unless a raid forces to do AOE, I don't get the point of giving us more AOE tools.

Granted, but you have to keep in mind that just because it has limited use to us outside of select encounters doesn't preclude a value in a great many other contexts. Trash packs in dungeons yes, but also open-world content and add phases of select raid encounters like Wreath of Snakes; not all of FF14 is Savage Alphascape v4.0, and on the whole I find myself spamming Scatter just as often as I am doing my basic melee rotation.

(And the fact that it's so common that I'm just hitting one button over and over and over in preparation of hitting another is... kind of the problem.)

Besides, such an argument isn't unique in its application to the RDM. After all, BLM gets a passive specifically designed to let them cast two Flares in a row, which is just as situational to them in single-target encounters as Scatter and Moulinet are to us. Out of five actives and passives we get per expansion, dedicating one to an AoE phase is... kinda just the standard at this point.

Embolden needs to gradually increase, not decrease.

Honestly, I disagree with this too. While it would be preferential if Embolden just had a flat value throughout the entire duration, it's far easier to time out maximizing its value in burst scenarios in its current iteration -- "We need to maximize burst RIGHT NOW, so I'll hit Embolden now while I'm meleeing so my Verfinisher gets the full 10% and synchronize Embolden's maximum effects with current raid buffs, then hop back and continue spamming as many spells as I can until it's gone."

In the suggested reverse scenario, you the RDM would have to pre-plan about 15 seconds into the future for the full effect, including others' raid buffs. That just ain't happening.

However, I agree that it makes no sense for us, as Magic DPS, to have damage tools that don't benefit from magic damage increases. I didn't even know Fleche and Contre Sixte didn't benefit from our own Embolden until very recently, which I'm sure has led to many wasted casts.

Like OP, I'd like to use my Mana for some other things than the combo. I had in mind something like "Black Sword" or "White Sword" that would use 10-20 of said Mana and place a debuff (Black) on the enemy and a buff (White) to a party member. They would share a CD, and it could give RDM more support tools.

Don't know where I stand on this -- you're arguing how situational AoE is but you're also positing the value of a tool that could only be useful if we mess up our rotation or get screwed by RNG at best, or be extraneous/competitive with our existing melee combo mechanic at worst. More support tools isn't necessarily a bad thing, but that resource cost would dictate our rotation, and in most encounters one would absolutely be preferred to another based on party size.

[Mansion]

Granted, but you have to keep in mind that just because it has limited use to us outside of select encounters doesn't preclude a value in a great many other contexts. Trash packs in dungeons yes, but also open-world content and add phases of select raid encounters like Wreath of Snakes; not all of FF14 is Savage Alphascape v4.0, and on the whole I find myself spamming Scatter just as often as I am doing my basic melee rotation.

(And the fact that it's so common that I'm just hitting one button over and over and over in preparation of hitting another is... kind of the problem.)

Besides, such an argument isn't unique in its application to the RDM. After all, BLM gets a passive specifically designed to let them cast two Flares in a row, which is just as situational to them in single-target encounters as Scatter and Moulinet are to us. Out of five actives and passives we get per expansion, dedicating one to an AoE phase is... kinda just the standard at this point.

Yeah but even in a raid context, Seiryu for instance is not mindless AOE, you have to control the deaths because of raid damage. O7S had adds that you focused regardless, AOE is not an option. A12S has adds that are AOE spammables, but also adds that need to be killed in whichever order because of the strat. My point is that AOE spam is not so relevant there.
Open world content is relevant in the few weeks following each expansion, after that it's just dead as you outlevel everything and you are far more efficient with single target (especially with RDM).

So I kind of agree with you, but AOE is very niche. One or two is enough, and we have scatter / moulinet / contre de sixte. That's enough. Especially with the enhanced scatter trait, you can chain Moulinets, you can play with Manafication to milk more... RDM AOE is fine, really. It's not so interesting but as you said, most other jobs are not so interesting either is that respect. SMN is the only one with a bit more adaptability.

[Mansion]

While it would be preferential if Embolden just had a flat value throughout the entire duration, it's far easier to time out maximizing its value in burst scenarios in its current iteration -- "We need to maximize burst RIGHT NOW, so I'll hit Embolden now while I'm meleeing so my Verfinisher gets the full 10% and synchronize Embolden's maximum effects with current raid buffs, then hop back and continue spamming as many spells as I can until it's gone."

In the suggested reverse scenario, you the RDM would have to pre-plan about 15 seconds into the future for the full effect, including others' raid buffs. That just ain't happening.

Yeah I might have been unclear about this one. I'm actually for a flat DPS buff. But if I had to choose between increasing and decreasing, I'd go with increasing because it's more valuable for anyone that did not burst in the original 4 full potency seconds rather than seeing the buff pop and keeping a bunch of abilities to throw at that time. This is of course happening in a context with no communication within the team. Otherwise, decreasing embolden will be just fine if alligned properly.

However, I agree that it makes no sense for us, as Magic DPS, to have damage tools that don't benefit from magic damage increases. I didn't even know Fleche and Contre Sixte didn't benefit from our own Embolden until very recently, which I'm sure has led to many wasted casts.

Well you use them on cooldown 98% of the time so it's alright to use them within Embolden if they come up at that time. You should just not delay them to fit your Embolden buff. Otherwise, there are never wasted casts of Fleche and Contre de Sixte.

Don't know where I stand on this -- you're arguing how situational AoE is but you're also positing the value of a tool that could only be useful if we mess up our rotation or get screwed by RNG at best, or be extraneous/competitive with our existing melee combo mechanic at worst. More support tools isn't necessarily a bad thing, but that resource cost would dictate our rotation, and in most encounters one would absolutely be preferred to another based on party size.

That kind of action would require more Mana management tools. These actions would not need imbalanced situation, but could fit the rotation if there are other actions to balance its mana cost implication.
Imbalanced mana is almost inexistant in RDM, you have enough tools to avoid it. So introducing this kind of actions would make RDM's rotation a bit less straightforward (if not braindead).

[Kurando]

I don't expect it to happen but I'll find it extremely boring if we are still Scatter spamming as part of an aoe rotation moving forward in to a new expansion, so here goes.

Keep Verflare and Verholy as single target, but introduce an aoe Ver-spell. So using 3 Enchanted Moulinets successfully will either unlock a seperate action or force an existing action (possibly Contre, Scatter maybe even Tether?) to automatically process to the Ver-aoe, giving you a timed window (just like Flare or Holy) to end with your finisher. Sure it's not going to see much use in single target battles like bosses, but it would be nice to have something a little more colourful you know.

[Wayfinder3]

I think you guys are missing the point of why I believe the Ver Finshers should be AoE. It’s because I’m situations where there are 2 targets in which it’s a dps loss to use scatter and Moulinet. Rdm falls behind BLM and SMN as they have dots and AoE that give them more flexibility. Guardian was an example where the Verfinsher doing AoE damage wouldve been a nice way to help rdm keep pace with casters in those niche but very real situations.

Scatter spam is boring and inefficient but it’s designed for 3 or more targets and thus, has nothing to do with the change. Rdm needs a 2 target option and I believe that doing this will make it less of a burden on the job, then say giving them a dot

[Mansion]

I think you guys are missing the point of why I believe the Ver Finshers should be AoE. It’s because I’m situations where there are 2 targets in which it’s a dps loss to use scatter and Moulinet. Rdm falls behind BLM and SMN as they have dots and AoE that give them more flexibility. Guardian was an example where the Verfinsher doing AoE damage wouldve been a nice way to help rdm keep pace with casters in those niche but very real situations.

Scatter spam is boring and inefficient but it’s designed for 3 or more targets and thus, has nothing to do with the change. Rdm needs a 2 target option and I believe that doing this will make it less of a burden on the job, then say giving them a dot

Ah ok, now I see thanks.

Still, that's just a spell that you cast far less frequently than any other of the RDM base kit. I'm not sure the gain in a two targets situation would be worth it, rather than being really bursty on one target then switching on the other. I think that kinda is the point of RDM, outside of a bit of RNG for procs (that can be well tempered with effective proc fishing), it has a short rotation with a very high burst for single target. It does not do well in two targets situations, but in 3+ enemies it has nothing to be ashmed of in terms of numbers.

[Hysterior]

I really want at least one DOT...

[Archwizard]

I really want at least one DOT...

While I agree with others that it's not really a necessity, a lengthy DoT of some variety would both benefit our sustained (particularly mobile) damage output, and be able to bring something new to the rotation without necessarily being invasive or forcing us to relearn the basics. There's nothing wrong with having one.

I'm honestly a little surprised we don't have some kind of bleed effect as part of the melee rotation, given all the stabbing we do, but the frequency of that combo is a little inconsistent so I suppose it's for the best we don't have any buffs or debuffs attached to it.

[kidalutz]

like Burns or Windburn there you go enhanced the basic package for RDM but lets also bear in mind the utility of Verraise and Vercure something that makes the middle of the pack damage worth taking a RDM over the Turret or DoT Boy.

[Archwizard]

like Burns or Windburn there you go enhanced the basic package for RDM but lets also bear in mind the utility of Verraise and Vercure something that makes the middle of the pack damage worth taking a RDM over the Turret or DoT Boy.

The main concern with RDM's current utility is that, ideally, it should never need to be deployed. Verraise is great for progression and random Duty Finders (where people have no choice but to suffer you for at least 15 minutes), but has no role in a group that knows what it's doing because nobody should be dying. Meanwhile the RDM should be dealing damage rather than healing, so Vercure's main purposes are giving yourself Dualcast when an enemy isn't around, and topping yourself off right before you detonate when your healers are being slow or ignoring you. They're safety nets to catch you in a bad team, but don't really help a good team shine.

That being said: I don't think we need a Vermedica.
There's a thin line between "bringing utility" and "stepping on the healer's toes". Gaining an option to heal the party without looking away from the boss, which will only be deployed when you know the healers are slacking, falls on the latter.