Shadowbringers RDM Wishlist

[Shurrikhan]

I do love your charge-based proposal. However, I would be concerned with its interaction with Manafication, and once again, the erasure of Displacement if Corps-a-corps becomes a safer alternative.

Just have Manafication give a single charge. We generally don't need to backflip-rapid-escape from our melee combo. Or give it none. It was only added to Manafication for QoL convenience that would already become superfluous upon giving them multiple charges.

The only real way I can think of to make that work would be to give Corps-a-corps a minimum range so you can't just point-blank it... and even then there's nothing stopping you from just Displacing and zipping back in the whole fight (not that there's anything preventing that now, I suppose), or depending on the range... just taking a step back and Corpsing.

I don't really see the point, so long as we're going to make it any sort of obligatory APM component at all. Animation-wise, its effectively Shinten. What's wrong with stabbing someone you'd already be close to without having to rush up to them first? You could give it distance-based damage and make a bigger deal out of its tether bit in its animation, but... why bother?

I mean, if you really wanted to make Corps and Disp optional for damage but integral into the kit, you'd just roughly standardize Red (Black + White) Mana's potency efficiency, alike to Samurai's Kenki efficiency. Its made roughly as efficient as your full combo; you just need to buff Enchanted Rip, Zwerch, and Redoublement to even potency increase steps from normal ppgcd as allowed by their Red Mana consumption. Once you get Verflare/Verfire, buff Displacement and Corps by almost the difference, leaving it again just slightly inefficient. There, now you have mobility at minimal cost, and your burst timings are more manipulable, and of course your overall potency is compensated for the 7 potency per second lost.

Or, hybridize: do something more with that Acceleration mechanic. Let RDM "Rush" certain of its cooldowns at Red Mana cost. Assuming, say, every point of Red Mana is worth 5 potency (e.g. if you brought the combo down to 65 or whatever), rushing the (dropped to 100, for easy numbers) potency of either would cost you up to 20 Red to cast again after having literally just used them. Again, they'd lack the further MP generation of Verflare/Verholy, their guaranteed procs, and later Scorch, however, so they're always technically less efficient. Buff them faintly with each further step so their inefficiency remains about the same, so you never feel locked out of your mobility tools.

Personally, I'd love to see the 2-3 Charges and/or the Acceleration.

[Kabooa]

And truth is, I totally get that. DoTs are tedious to manage; timers in general are stressful. And don't even get me started on multi-dotting..

Personally I just find them boring. DoTs are the least imaginative way to add timing constraints to a job. It's all potency in the end. Why not have something -not a DoT- that effectively achieves the same thing. (A singular action that deals greater potency but gated so you don't just spam it)

For example, what we don't have or have too little of.

Delayed Burst - A back end ability that ticks down and deals damage. Like wildfire.

VerFreeze
Spell
30s Recast
Effect: Inflict the enemy with creeping cold for 15 seconds. After 15 seconds, the enemy suffers a flash freeze, taking 450 Ice Potency damage and generating 13 Black Mana.

Trigger Burst - Similar to Delayed Burst, but requires Activation and Detonation

(Since Black Mage stole the ability name)
Mana Surge
Weaponskill
Effect: Inflict latent aether onto an enemy for 45 seconds. If latent Aether is present, deals 100 potency damage, generate 2/2 mana and refreshes Mana Surge's duration. The potency increases by 40 and Mana generated by 1/1 for ever 3 seconds that pass. These bonuses are reset to 0 when Mana Surge is reapplied.

On-Hit Damage - Additional damage to every applicable attack

Biting Blade
Trait
Effect: Upon using Contra Sixte or Fleche, your Weaponskills deal an additional 40 potency per hit for 9 seconds.

Environmental Damage - Creating a foreign object / effect to further interact with the enemy.

VerFlood
Spell
Effect: Create a flood of water 10y behind you that travels 20y forward. The wave deals 180 water potency to enemies it strikes. The wave gains 80 potency for every 5y it travels, and travels 5y approximately every 6 seconds. Enemies can only be struck by flood once per 10 seconds. Only one Flood may be active at a time.

Amplifiers - A foreign object / effect you can target to cast spells into that enhance the overall effect.

Rose Nexus
Ability
Recast: 120s
Effect: Places a Rose Nexus at target location for up to 20s. Rose Nexus is targetable by your spells, storing 110% of the potency of the spells used upon it. Upon absorbing 5 spells, Rose Nexus detonates, causing enemies within 5y to take the stored potency as damage.

[CorbinDallas]

It's the reason I swapped to RDM off of BLM, 'cuz I didn't take the stress of having to fight the Enochian timer and the DoT and the boss at the same time very well.

BLM has such a strict rotation that applying Thunder is braindead by nature. Enochian is another. Sorry not sorry, but you're just flat out bad at BLM if you can't maintain Enochian at this point, it's the Greased Lightning of casters and they make it easier and easier. Heck they're making it even easier in 5.0 by increasing the duration of AF/UI to 15s.

Just do your rotation and "git gud" at the job, and these timers and buffs become second nature to the point that your full focus is on uptime and fighting the boss.

[Archwizard]

So, I guess with the media tour long concluded and Shadowbringers a mere week away, some parting thoughts for this thread:

I guess a lot of us initially expected more from the changes, owing to the hype of it being the job's first expansion since introduction. Ultimately though, I think most of us can be satisfied that the devs took the opportunity to examine the job, see what works, and attempt to iron out the kinks before adding more to it. While we may disagree with the "how" in some particular cases, and feel disappointed at the lack of growth within the kit, this does mean the devs see the RDM experiment as at least an initial success.

Of course, if you examine the history of other jobs added in expansions, this doesn't preclude us from getting shiny new toys later on. So with that in mind, some hopes for future expansions:

• We have a glaring gap within our kit for an "Oh Sh!t" button. With SMNs now getting a barrier from their Titan-Egis, RDMs are the odd man out amongst caster roles in terms of survivability, particularly with our kit uniquely demanding closed-quarters for short periods. While we do have Vercure, it does cost us both time and resources to cast. While I don't wish for us to get a clone of Manaward or Earthen Armor (as at that point you may as well eliminate Titan-Egi and make Manaward a role action), I do hope we'll have this gap filled with a unique tool befitting RDM's lore and particular style of combat. Likewise, I don't think we should monopolize the field of self-healing and sustainability outside of a raid environment; self-sustainability should be more punishing for a DPS than a core healer (so that each retains their specialities and core efficiencies), but not impossible for someone like a BLM or improbable for a SMN.
• Given the simplicity of the base rotation -- and particularly with it being expected to remain unchanged from the four years since RDM's introduction -- I would not personally be opposed to "shaking it up" in an iterative fashion. With us fast-approaching level 80 content (and potentially 90 by the time this post becomes relevant), I believe there is room for the job to expand into a "easy to pick up, difficult to master" niche. In short: I hope the job becomes harder in future expansions, but in small ways that don't demand too much more from veterans right out of the gate, simply requiring a little more focus. We're the only caster job that has no real responsibilities or obligations within our rotation -- no DoTs, no phases or trances, no AI to micromanage, just building a resource that doesn't diminish and popping it when the bar fills -- and while I don't believe we need to be dumped with two mana-spending DoTs, an Enochian clone and a regular instant proc overnight, I encourage the devs not to be afraid to let the job grow beyond its simple beginnings, since there is still lots of room to create a skill gap within RDM long before we end up as stressful as other jobs. The usual trend of "one or two new additions to the core rotation per expansion" is a good balance.
• I implore the devs to reconsider the purpose of Corps-a-corps and Displacement. The addition of Engagement implies that they are oGCD DPS tools first and mobility tools second, but if our mobility is supposed be what sets us apart from other casters, then we need to be able to hold our mobility tools for use as-needed, rather than spend them at every opportunity for damage and not have them when we need to... move.
• I also think more time should be taken to explore the value of RDM's utility, particularly with regards to its trade-offs for damage. It can be frustrating and disheartening for players to be turned away from raid progression because their job's primary utility (Raising) is a safety net that nobody needs anymore, and their damage can't quite catch up. Now, if RDM had a similar potential to SMN provided players could bridge the skill gap within the job, that would be a different story since it would mean RDMs could still have great value in late stages of progression with practiced hands, but as of now our maximum potential is easy to reach and being held back by our volume of Raises. On a similar note, BLMs are inversely more frequent in the later stages of progression, but only because they could bridge a skill gap. While I don't mean to imply that the playing field between the jobs should be completely flattened, I hope that a more favorable balance can be found between them.
• While I am glad the change to Lucid Dreaming gives us more control of our MP, it's also somewhat disheartening, since it means that RDM's own method of recovering MP is now tied to the same manner as several other jobs via a generic role action, rather than each having their own recovery methods a la BLM and its UI phase. While we're in a functional position right now and it is by no means any priority, I hope this can be reconsidered for the sake of each job's identity in the future.
• Mostly for aesthetic and lore, but please tell me why we have yet to expand into the fields of ice and water magic? It's quite telling that we have two iterations of Thunder and Aero and none of Blizzard yet.

[PatronasCharm]

So, I guess with the media tour long concluded and Shadowbringers a mere week away, some parting thoughts for this thread:

• We have a glaring gap within our kit for an "Oh Sh!t" button. With SMNs now getting a barrier from their Titan-Egis, RDMs are the odd man out amongst caster roles in terms of survivability, particularly with our kit uniquely demanding closed-quarters for short periods. While we do have Vercure, it does cost us both time and resources to cast. While I don't wish for us to get a clone of Manaward or Earthen Armor (as at that point you may as well eliminate Titan-Egi and make Manaward a role action), I do hope we'll have this gap filled with a unique tool befitting RDM's lore and particular style of combat. Likewise, I don't think we should monopolize the field of self-healing and sustainability outside of a raid environment; self-sustainability should be more punishing for a DPS than a core healer (so that each retains their specialities and core efficiencies), but not impossible for someone like a BLM or improbable for a SMN.

Something that they could do is, for button bloating purposes is add a trait to Corpse-a-Corpse. Trait "Phalanx?" A small throwback to FFXI and their Phalanx / Phalanx II.

Perhaps:
Corpse-a-corpse

• Rushes target and delivers an attack with a potency of 130.
• Additional Effect: Phalanx
• Creates a barrier on self that absorbs damage totaling 25% of target's maximum HP.
• Duration: 30s
• Cannot be executed while bound.

Since we're throwing ourselves in the line of fire, the barrier could be useful.
It can also reset upon using Manafecation.

Engagement has a potency loss? Yes, it's safer to use? Well, maybe give it an added bonus for that loss of DPS.

Perhaps add Phalanx II to Engagement

• Creates a barrier on self and target that absorbs damage totaling 20% of target's maximum HP.

And yes, I do too want to see Blizzard in a way, Idk why SE didn't add it to their rotation in 5.0. Maybe a question we could ask Yoshi P.

[Archwizard]

Something that they could do is, for button bloating purposes is add a trait to Corpse-a-Corpse. Trait "Phalanx?" A small throwback to FFXI and their Phalanx / Phalanx II.

Perhaps:
Corpse-a-corpse

• Rushes target and delivers an attack with a potency of 130.
• Additional Effect: Phalanx
• Creates a barrier on self that absorbs damage totaling 25% of target's maximum HP.
• Duration: 30s
• Cannot be executed while bound.

Since we're throwing ourselves in the line of fire, the barrier could be useful.
It can also reset upon using Manafecation.

Ignoring the placeholder values, you realize that's an HP barrier every 40 seconds, right?

To be clear: Manaward for BLM is 30% HP for 20 sec every 2 minutes, with no damage. Earthen Armor for SMN is a 20% HP barrier that comes at a DPS loss. Corps-a-corps is free and part of our rotation.

Engagement has a potency loss? Yes, it's safer to use? Well, maybe give it an added bonus for that loss of DPS.

I think you misunderstand. Nobody's intent is for anything to "make up" for Engagement's potency loss, because Engagement already exists to "make up" for Displacement's risk factor.

What we want is for Engagement to not bloat the toolkit at all. For the devs to remove the band-aid fix on Displacement's innate issues and just address Displacement directly.

At any rate, and a point I'm sure you can get behind: I'd rather not have RDM's OSB be yet another rehash of Manaward, when it has so many unique opportunities of its own from its cross with WHM.

[SaberMaxwell]

I think you misunderstand. Nobody's intent is for anything to "make up" for Engagement's potency loss, because Engagement already exists to "make up" for Displacement's risk factor.

What we want is for Engagement to not bloat the toolkit at all. For the devs to remove the band-aid fix on Displacement's innate issues and just address Displacement directly.

What you want. I'm fine with Displacement / Engagement, and think they are very good decision gates to have in the kit.

[Archwizard]

What you want. I'm fine with Displacement / Engagement, and think they are very good decision gates to have in the kit.

What several of us want, and have said as much in this thread. There are other ways to address Displacement than contributing to bloat by giving us the option to ignore it, especially since it will mean an arbitrary damage penalty based on encounter design. Displacement has issues; that very fact is why we have the band-aid. Engagement is to us what Scathe is to BLMs: the "I couldn't hit what I really wanted" button.

And as I stated, in all likelihood Engagement won't really solve all of the behaviors with Displacement, particularly if the latter remains higher damage. People trying for top parses will try to ignore Engagement as much as possible, meaning a lot of overconfident players will continue leaping to their deaths, despite being its target audience.

[PatronasCharm]

Ignoring the placeholder values, you realize that's an HP barrier every 40 seconds, right?

Ahaha yeah, your right, maybe it might be an overkill, perhaps reducing it to a 10s buff duration. It was just a thought =D

To be clear: Manaward for BLM is 30% HP for 20 sec every 2 minutes, with no damage. Earthen Armor for SMN is a 20% HP barrier that comes at a DPS loss. Corps-a-corps is free and part of our rotation.

At any rate, and a point I'm sure you can get behind: I'd rather not have RDM's OSB be yet another rehash of Manaward, when it has so many unique opportunities of its own from its cross with WHM.

Sort of spitting stuff out at this moment, if we want something unique, how about something like:

[If Black Mana Meter is higher] If 30+ Black Mana accumulation required - Ice Spikes becomes available

Ice Spikes: Creates a barrier that nullifies damage totaling up to 30% of maximum HP.

• Duration: 20s
• Additional Effect: Ice Form
• 15% Of damage dealt converted to MP
• Duration: 20s

[If White Mana Meter is higher] 30+ White Mana accumulated required - Stoneskin

Stoneskin: Creates a barrier that nullifies damage totaling up to 30% of maximum HP.

• Duration: 20s
• Additional Effect: Grants healing over time effect
• Cure Potency: 100
• Duration: 20s

I know you mentioned something like this in a post before, but can't recall what you described. How would you craft something along the lines of Manaward / Earthen Barrier with a unique RDM twist?

[Archwizard]

I know you mentioned something like this in a post before, but can't recall what you described. How would you craft something along the lines of Manaward / Earthen Barrier with a unique RDM twist?

My thinking has been a brief mitigation skill based on Reflect. Very short uptime (we don't really need more than 10 sec of protection for most purposes), but with a potent counterattack based on the damage blocked if timed properly, to fit with the fencing theme.

Direct mitigation is always an alternative to absorption, as is increasing evasion chance (albeit the latter is not my favorite since you'd put all your eggs in one basket against big hits like Protostar or Wave Cannon). Could even have us play into our WHM side and have us place a barrier for allies, though that would probably get nerfed to hell and back.