Shadowbringers RDM Wishlist

[Archwizard]

SEE WHAT YOU DID?!
This topic was hell about "I'm bored when I use scatter" and now we have AoE re-design that stripped us off Impact.
"You brought this up on yourself" as Seiryu would say. ;D

And boy, am I not sorry about that.

In fairness to your point though, while Potency is all relative (and the buff to Displacement will largely make up for it), the changes to Impact do mean a small drop in our Mana generation. In that light, Scorch is arguably just a compressed series of [Impact - Jolt II]'s rolled together.

The ranged Mana spender... 300 pot for 10 mana, I'm not sure I see the point apart from bieng some kind of Scathe ability. If a mechanic forces you to move, you have slide-cast the first spell, dual cast the second, (Swiftcast the third) and you still need to move, yeah maybe.

Admittedly I'm in the same boat. While it is SIGNIFICANTLY better than Scathe (and I believe some were arguing that 8 Reprises may actually be worth more burst than our entire melee combo, Verfinisher Mana returns aside), it feels like it exists to do a job that could have been just as easily filled by making Swiftcast exempt from Dualcast's rules against instant-chaining.
As a melee skill (setting aside it's an instant for just a moment), it won't even proc Dualcast.

It's disappointing that instead of getting new tools to expand on the capabilities of our kit, we got two "last resort" skills that exist to band-aid over cracks in the kit, at least one of which shouldn't exist in the first place.

Still... having a cheap, potent spender that can be used to fine-tune our Mana and keep us from overcapping without setting us back 4-7 GCDs isn't the worst thing. We'll probably find some niche uses to Reprise if nothing else.

I'm really happy we did not get any healing ability/support though.

So-so. I'm not dying to step on a healer's toes, but I wouldn't have minded a better group buff than Embolden.

It was specifically the White Mage line of healing spells, as far as I remember. This dated back to 1.x though,

There's your problem.

[Kabooa]

So-so. I'm not dying to step on a healer's toes, but I wouldn't have minded a better group buff than Embolden.

Embolden is much better than most of us have given it credit for. The problem is that it's also the Red Mage steroid.

[Mansion]

Embolden is much better than most of us have given it credit for. The problem is that it's also the Red Mage steroid.

Agreed. Clunky as it is, Embolden is still better than a Mantra for instance. Because it's DPS up, and that's the #1 buff that is sought in party buffs (here place eveyrhting that is DMG up, crit / DH / speed up), then Defense Up, then healing up (because most of the time it's healing spells up, so it does not work on what healers tend to use the most, namely Abilities like Indom, Earthly Star etc).

We've had that discussion, but an oGCD weak regen placed on a party member that would give us White Mana would have been ok because it's a DPS gain (or at least not a DPS sacrifice).

And boy, am I not sorry about that.

MONSTER

In fairness to your point though, while Potency is all relative (and the buff to Displacement will largely make up for it), the changes to Impact do mean a small drop in our Mana generation. In that light, Scorch is arguably just a compressed series of [Impact - Jolt II]'s rolled together.

Yeah but as far as we know, we'll use Scorch less often than we currently use (Jolt II and) Impact. That's a potency loss and a Mana gain loss (resulting in a DPS loss too). I'm not sure about the maths here, but even if our finisher now gives us 18-7 Mana (virtually making it faster to get into Melee), I think Impact is a better option (also in proc preparation when you go into melee)

[Archwizard]

Yeah but as far as we know, we'll use Scorch less often than we currently use (Jolt II and) Impact. That's a potency loss and a Mana gain loss (resulting in a DPS loss too). I'm not sure about the maths here, but even if our finisher now gives us 18-7 Mana (virtually making it faster to get into Melee), I think Impact is a better option (also in proc preparation when you go into melee)

Yes and no. Since we still have Jolt II and it retains the same effectiveness (potentially with +10 potency), we can subtract the value of all Jolt II's from any Impacts we may have lost -- making the effective value of each individual Impact a mere 20 potency and 1/1 Mana over the Jolt.

So if we measure the value of Scorch as a result of that -- its Mana gains being 7 "effective" Impacts -- it needs to outweigh the number of Impacts we would theoretically cast leading up to the melee combo, or else we call it a loss.
Bear in mind that in a proper rotation of alternating Impacts and Jolts with longcasts, assuming zero procs of Verstone/Verfire so as to maximize the number of Jolts you would use, we're talking about 27 GCDs (including 7 Jolt IIs and 13 longcasts) to reach 7 Impacts -- by which point you've generated 126/115 Mana, so we can safely say it does not require that many casts in order to reach the melee combo (which assuming worst case conditions requires only 20 GCDs, or 5 Impacts).
My math may be a little off since I'm doing it in my head. Feel free to double-check, but should be in the right ballpark.
And again, that's assuming zero procs pushing back Impacts -- if we factor in the average proc rates, we get me doing math at 4am and giving up to go to bed.

Point is, Scorch's net value is still a gain overall, just not as much as it looks like at face value.
(Also, doesn't our Verfinisher give 21 Mana and a proc? Which combined with Scorch to be 37/7 Mana? Or did I miss a Verfinisher nerf in the demo? I know he used it at 100/100 so it wouldn't have given a proc...)

[Pendas]

I'm probably in the minority here, but I love these RDM changes. RDM plays so damn smooth as is. I feel any drastic changes like timers / Dots to keep track of would ruin the job. The class balance team has a tendency of stacking different mechanics on top of each other, instead of taking one mechanic and expanding on it. It's one of the reasons I hated Heavensward, the addition of Job Gauges made some classes a pain in the ass to play. (and ruined Black Mage for me)

[Archwizard]

Having finally confirmed the changes...

Three out of five advancements as traits devoted to raising potencies or lowering CDs?
Any of which could have been done baseline, as seen with Jolt II or LD?
One of which is devoted to two abilities we just received?

No adjustments to our survivability, despite SMN gaining an absorb to meet BLM, and our own presence in melee combat?
Removing all CC despite implying the increased value of CC in Shadowbringers, and extending Repose to all healers?
Making multiple adjustments to the BLM and SMN kits to address awkward recast timers or burst windows, but then making the only change to our Mana gain rate a small reduction to a CD that we'll probably keep lined up with Embolden?

Really.

[Maero]

@Archwizard, is it really surprising though? A good portion of Stormblood Red Mage had been untouched with no changes while all other jobs received multiple and despite it being really weak they though it was fine as it was.
I think it will be fine for 5.0 but we shall see how far behind we are left i guess? I really hope the changes to impact/scatter is good, the aoe and Scorth.

Healers i think are in worst shape for SB which kind of rather sucks as they were supposed to have perfected them hence no new heals.

[Lauront]

It's certainly deliberate, but I don't think it's a particularly great decision, and it's something they could have more easily achieved by just taking damage out of Displacement altogether and moving it elsewhere. At least that way you don't end up with a trait buffing Displacement AND a new ability that is set up to be inferior to it, as an alternative. It seems to me they were in a rush to add the abilities, because I doubt they really lacked any better ideas than this.

As for the AST thing, no doubt an error.

[LeoLupinos]

AoE roration:

Verblizzard: 5s cast AoE, 220 pot, 7 Black Mana.
Verwater: 5s cast AoE, 220 pot, 7 White Mana.

Scatter: 2s cast AoE, 120 pot, 3/3 mana. Upgrades to Impact during Impactful.
Moulinet: Grants Impactful, can stack 5 times, 30 seconds duration.
Impact: Instant cast AoE, 220 pot, 4/4 mana. Can only be used during Impactful. Consumes one Impactful stack.

AoE rotation: Scatter > Verblizzard > Scatter > Verwater > Enchanted Moulinet > Impact.

Pretty please!!

[Archwizard]

AoE roration:

Verblizzard: 5s cast AoE, 220 pot, 7 Black Mana.
Verwater: 5s cast AoE, 220 pot, 7 White Mana.

Scatter: 2s cast AoE, 120 pot, 3/3 mana. Upgrades to Impact during Impactful.
Moulinet: Grants Impactful, can stack 5 times, 30 seconds duration.
Impact: Instant cast AoE, 220 pot. Can only be used during Impactful. Consumes one Impactful stack.

AoE rotation: Scatter > Verblizzard > Scatter > Verwater > Enchanted Moulinet > Impact.

Pretty please!!

I mean, I too would prefer AoE Verthunder and AoE Veraero to be replaced with Verblizzard and Verwater (respectively) if only to be less confusing, particularly with Acceleration, but...

What you're suggesting sounds like what we already have, but 220 potency stronger for every 20 Mana? Effectively meaning you're just begging for potency increases -- on our AoE -- when numbers aren't even finalized yet?

And the 1:1 proc-rates on Enchanted Moulinet -> Impact are basically just E.Moulinet damage over 2 GCDs? There's nothing meaningful being added to the rotation, just an extra GCD every time you use <other button>.